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Author Topic: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)  (Read 272266 times)

hector13

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2220 on: October 29, 2023, 02:13:07 am »

Yup, and the world is as black and white as you make it out to be, too.
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the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Strongpoint

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2221 on: October 29, 2023, 12:55:45 pm »

Quote from: Strongpoint
Also, looking at all those "pro-Palestinian" protests across the globe and how they only increase in intensity... What is your prediction, in which country we will see the first pogrom? My bet is Canada.

Looks like it will be Russia. In Machachkala, a Muslim majority city in Russia, a crowd broke into the airport to meet a flight from Israel looking for Israeli citizens with not friendly intentions. Russian police does nothing
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Strongpoint

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2222 on: November 02, 2023, 10:15:43 pm »

I am amazed by the progress of the Israeli ground invasion in Gaza, with how low their casualties are and how limited the collateral damage is (even if we assume that HAMAS claims are true)

I guess it feels good to have one of the best armies in the world... Also, having air supremacy is actually really-really good in a modern war. Yep, I am envious. If only Ukraine put 1/10th of the Israeli effort into having a proper army.
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Great Order

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2223 on: November 03, 2023, 12:03:23 am »

Israel's been training their army for a long time. On top of that, Hamas is hardly equivalent to a nation-state's army.

Ukraine on the other hand had a lot of severe issues with the military until 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. They had insufficient time to properly develop their military. On top of that, Russia *is* a nation-state with an airforce and a huge population to draw from, as well as large amounts of native arms production.
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Schmaven

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2224 on: November 03, 2023, 04:46:01 am »

I don't recall the source, but I've also heard Ukraine has been deemed the most corrupt country in Europe.  I suspect that would have also severely degraded the effectiveness of their armed forces.
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Strongpoint

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2225 on: November 03, 2023, 05:01:27 am »

Israel's been training their army for a long time. On top of that, Hamas is hardly equivalent to a nation-state's army.

Ukraine on the other hand had a lot of severe issues with the military until 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea. They had insufficient time to properly develop their military. On top of that, Russia *is* a nation-state with an airforce and a huge population to draw from, as well as large amounts of native arms production.

I am not comparing Hamas to Russia (Still their infantry is far better motivated and trained than average Russian soldier) nor do I see any other possible outcome than Israeli victory because the potentials are incomparable. I am saying that Israel proceeds far more smoothly than I expected. 

I don't recall the source, but I've also heard Ukraine has been deemed the most corrupt country in Europe.  I suspect that would have also severely degraded the effectiveness of their armed forces.

It is a wrong thread for this so I won't go in detail... but while corruption degrades everything, it is not that. Ukrainians just never voted for politicians who proposed to increase the military budget, and nor did Ukrainians protest with demands to strengthen the army. Even after 2014, only a small minority cared.
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The_Explorer

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2226 on: November 05, 2023, 01:29:04 pm »

Not sure if this is more ameripol or this thread appropriate. I'll just put it here since its mostly about israel really

next years elections will be very...hmm...interesting if israel war goes on. There are seemingly no alternatives between butthead and beavis is our two choices next year. Do you want butthead? Or do you want beavis?

But beavis's handling of israel is not very popular with large groups of democrats it seems or the muslim population. Seems support is starting to crack

And its very strange to see butthead start praising certain democrats anti-israel stance tbh (which of course doesn't mean anti-jewish, but the two are easy to meld together quite often), and there are literal nazis celebrating that too.

Like, beavis is giving israel a full thumbs up on doing whatever they want.
Butthead hates israel, but mostly because the head guy insulted him or something dunno, thats a butthead for you I guess. He is heavily pro-hamas (even complimented them), some democrats seem to be ok with hamas always avoiding condemning them. Butthead also praised this and there are some twittertrolls/bots that even said "wow who'd think democrats aligned more with butthead on this matter". Probably not that far fetched when butthead is publically happy to see anti-israel stuff.

With that said, I can see why democrats have this position when israel is doing whatever they want with seemingly no consequence at all.

And yes, this is what I call both candidates in real life lol. Is it childish, yeah probably...but come on, we got the two worst candidates we could ever have. But next election, I dunno, I'll probably sit it out completely, vote not a single person cause who the heck cares if its butthead or beavis, they both suck as presidents lol.

as far as I see it, (using normal names now :P) biden's pretty much given the go ahead for israel to commit war crimes. And trump is just sitting back with the exact opposing stance. Which tbh, almost aligns with mine but not entirely, I just dont want to see israel or any side in a conflict commiting war crimes. maybe he just wants to be opposite of biden or something to be contrarian, if biden likes it, trump must hate it or something I dunno.

Israel though to end off...is doing the same exact junk that russia does. Except the US is seemingly ok with it (except some democrats), there is too much hypocrisy going on. No, war crimes are bad NO MATTER WHOSE SIDE ITS ON.
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hector13

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2227 on: November 05, 2023, 01:39:13 pm »

Er… Trump moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, and wants to extend his Muslim ban to Gaza, plus increased ideological screening for people coming into the US, which will likely be a “do you support Hamas? Tick yes or no” on the paper you fill in before coming to the US. He’s not pro-Hamas, he’s just an idiot.
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

The_Explorer

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2228 on: November 05, 2023, 01:40:49 pm »

Er… Trump moved the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem, and wants to extend his Muslim ban to Gaza, plus increased ideological screening for people coming into the US, which will likely be a “do you support Hamas? Tick yes or no” on the paper you fill in before coming to the US. He’s not pro-Hamas, he’s just an idiot.

well no, kinda the point was he is more a contrarian I kinda mentioned that in a sentence but maybe could have gone into a little more indepth on that. He just says whatever it takes to get votes, I don't think he actually BELIEVES in anything. But he has actually publically complimented hamas (and north korea, russia etc).
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Starver

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2229 on: November 05, 2023, 02:20:30 pm »

Hard to say that Israel is doing what Russia is doing.  It's far more compelx than that.

Looked at another way (noting that you have to squint, to say this, of course, and tilt your head in a certain direction...), Israel has just had some small edge parts of it, supported by another regional power, advance into its territotory and make what was a seperatist issue into a hot war.


...now, I'm not saying this is [i[exactly[/i] like Ukraine. Rather than Ukraine being a natural consequence of the fragmentation of the USSR, Israel did indeed get created on the lands of Palestine. Israel, unlike Ukraine, has not just been defending/reclaiming territory unjustly removed from its nationstatehood, but is dealing with fragments of old-Palestine (and others) that, by past conflict and internationally-brokered agreement, are not it's territory in the same full sense as we'd even want to say Crimea is. And, for all the foreign support, Hamas (and Hezbollah, and any others I've forgotten) are no match at all for what Israel could do if it was hands-off 'uncivil' war.

But I think you can fully argue that Hamas made the rumbling 'grudge-fight conflict' made the first step into making this the warground that it is today, as much as if  if Luhansk and Donetsk Peoples' Republics had been the ones to suddenly hot things up in Ukraine, rather than the Russian 'backup' force. (You can probably also probably argue that the warhawk Israeli government was always spoiling for a fight, unlike Ukraine, and their greatest failing was that they were taken totally by surprise (or allowed themselves to be?) far more than whatever it was they might have otherwise taken as a causus beli to the future strikes into Gazan/etc territory that they were probably waiting for the opportunity.)


In short, would those asking for Israel to go full-on ceasefire also ask Ukraine to down weapons 'to save lives'? (Maybe some would.) I mean, I'd go so far as to suggest a managed pause in hostilities in Israel/Gaza (even anticipating that Hamas wouldn't stop 'fighting back') and let Israel regain some of the 'high(ish) moral ground' it had immediately after the initial attack.

But you can't expect Israel to go onto the back foot, like you really can't expect Ukraine to suggest "Ok, how about we call it a draw" whilst there's that huge tongue of illegal annexation covering land that hasn't even been expropriated by dubious political means. There's no good answer, in either case, and neither answer should involve just rolling over and accepting the outrage perpetrated against them.

(From there on, it becomes a divergent analogy. It is quite clear that Israeli factions/interests have done so much to rile up their opponents, even apart from the actual matter of the creation of the state of Israel in the first place. Although Russian propoganda may say otherwise, you'd be hard pressed to suggest that Ukraine as it was is the same kind of over-aggressive party, or suggest any significant justification at all for the separatists/whatever.


And, especially in light of anti-Israeli/pro-Palestinian protest movements, it makes the international support position troublesome. But I know I personally can't support those who think that it's a black and white issue where Israel deserves no support at all. Even whilst I abhor that Gazan innocents are in the position they are in (certainly not helped by either side's armed wings (army and militia) and the bullheadedness and of their respective leaderships. Personal interpretation (or 'natural affinity' to either side, especially) can of course swing an individual's POV either way, and there's a lot of historic grief on behalf of Palestine/etc that can be drawn upon in ways that right now the somehow cannot be rivalled by the Jewish community's concerns.  Until that Gordian Knot is succesfuly unraveled (however that can be achieved), I suspect that it'll be a troublesome roadbloack towards consensus.
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Strongpoint

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2230 on: November 05, 2023, 11:16:01 pm »

IMO, Unless war in Israel escalates to a larger scale, involving, at least, full participation of Hezbollah, this war will be yesterday's news by the time the American presidential campaign reaches its peak.
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martinuzz

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2231 on: November 06, 2023, 03:11:27 am »

US Central Command announced on X that they have sent an Ohio class nuclear submarine to the Middle East.
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Strongpoint

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2232 on: November 11, 2023, 12:45:49 pm »

Huge antisemitic crowds in London in 2023... I positively don't like this timeline.
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hector13

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2233 on: November 11, 2023, 01:17:33 pm »

Oh fuck off with that nonsense, the police say there are 300,000 people and most of the people being arrested are the far-right counter protesters.

They’re calling for an end to the conflict not the extermination of the Jews.

Edit:

BBC quote, emphasis mine:

Quote
We’ve finally been able to make it over Vauxhall Bridge to the south of the river, along the protest route.

What strikes me is the amount of people coming back over the bridge - effectively retracing the steps of the march, and then dispersing.

More seem to be making their way back from the US Embassy - the location of the end of the march - towards Victoria station and Westminster.

Chants critical of PM Rishi Sunak are repeated over a megaphone and there is a smoky smell from some flares which have been set off.

I haven't seen any trouble from these crowds of people.

There were also reports of people bringing their kids to the protest. You don’t bring your kids if you expect violence, unless you’re from Niddrie.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2023, 01:23:27 pm by hector13 »
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Look, we need to raise a psychopath who will murder God, we have no time to be spending on cooking.

the way your fingertips plant meaningless soliloquies makes me think you are the true evil among us.

Strongpoint

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Re: Non-EU europe thread (with Russia, Israel and Australia included)
« Reply #2234 on: November 11, 2023, 02:03:28 pm »

They’re calling for an end to the conflict not the extermination of the Jews.

Yeah, sure. It is all about supporting victims of a conflict!

No.  It is not about caring about innocent victims, we have many wars with innocent victims, and they don't gather crowds.

It is not about caring about the right of a nation to self-determination because I fail to see protests supporting, for example, Kurds, against whom Turkey takes unlawful military action quite regularly.

It isn't Muslim solidarity because I see no anti-Chinese protest, who outright ban Islam in a Muslim region and keep Muslims in concentration camps.

It isn't solidarity with Arabs either, few gave an F when Assad, together with non-Arab intervents in the form of Russia and Iran, killed Arabs in masse. Neither is there any interest in stopping the war in Sudan...

What makes this conflict unique? Israel is one of the sides, that's what. It means that the core motivation of those protests is either hatred of specifically Israel or hatred towards "the West" and "its Israeli outpost on Muslim lands" or good old antisemitism.


Besides, I am neither deaf nor blind. I see and hear their slogans. Those are not slogans of people wanting peace. "From the river to the sea Palestine will be free" and "Globalize the Intifada" are quite clear. And those are not the worst stuff that can be heard.
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