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[Sergarr]

Russian opposition leader Sergei Minorov announced on Twitter that he will propose a new law, which will make denying the Armenian genocide in 1915 by the Turks a punishable offense.

That's going to piss a lot of Turks off, since Turkey still refuses to acknowledge it being genocide.

I wonder, does Russia have similar law on the books for the Holocaust?

There's a more general law against "rehabilitation of nazism" existing since 2014 that essentially forbids denying up the results of Nuremberg tribunal, which covers up Holocaust as well as most other pro-nazism speech (google translation warning).

[martinuzz]

thanks, I was curious as well. I think here in the Netherlands, denying the holocaust is possibly the only free speech that is punishable by law. Just like Mein Kampf is the only censored book we have (as in, the distribution or sale of it to private parties is a criminal offense. It is available for studies in some univerity libraries though, and at the institute for war research).

I am not in favour of banning those genocide denials, for the same reason why Noam Chomsky defended Faurisson. Some people called Chomsky an antisemite for that, which is hilarious, since Chomsky himself is a jewish holocaust survivor.

I can't word it any better myself:

If you believe in freedom of speech, you believe in freedom of speech for views you don’t like. Goebbels was in favor of freedom of speech for views he liked. So was Stalin. If you’re in favor of freedom of speech, that means you’re in favor of freedom of speech precisely for views you despise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faurisson_affair

[Sergarr]

Trying to construct an unlimited freedom of speech has a tendency to lead to losing said freedom of speech. Hitler was elected because he was popular, and he was popular because of his speeches.

For a more modern example, see Trump and his campaign. He will almost certainly win primary (he's been holding the lead for almost the entire time since he started his campaign), and, if his supporters will intimidate enough people on the side of Democrats into not voting by threats of physical violence (and they're known for regularly beating up people, usually minorities, on pro-Trump rallies), he may very well win the title of President of USA, and turn it into fascist-land.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

USA will not turn into fascist land even if you resurrect Hitler Mussolini  and put him in the chair of the President of the United States

Impeachment exist. As soon as any American President will start to ignore American constitution he will stop being an American president

[Sheb]

Nice background on the shootdown of the Su-24.

Haven't read all of it, but lot's of interesting fact, like the fact that Russia announced on October 12th it'd escort its bombers with Su-30. Why wasn't that the case with the Su-24? Also a timeline of all the Russians violation of Turkish airspace

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Why wasn't that the case with the Su-24?

Because escorting bombers with fighters is more expensive in fuel, maintenance and runaway time.

Su-27 vs F-16 (Su 30 is as SU-27 As F-16C is F-16). Cold war classic. Would love to see the engagement.

[miljan]

So russian are increasing the bombing on border between turkey and syria(that is controlled by turkish backed rebels) from where a lot of weapons are smuggled in syria.

The S-400 anti-aircraft missile system have arrived at the Hmeimim airbase

Also russian is considering sending more fighters like Su-27 and Su-30 for additional air protection so they can have enough of fighters to follow all bombers.

In other news:
Network of tunnels built by ISIS complete with sleeping quarters and electricity supplies discovered underneath recently liberated Iraqi town
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sj7mExo4G-I

[Ukrainian Ranger]

The S-400 anti-aircraft missile system have arrived at the Hmeimim airbase

Teleported, lol

It is obvious it was there for months

[Strife26]

Trying to construct an unlimited freedom of speech has a tendency to lead to losing said freedom of speech. Hitler was elected because he was popular, and he was popular because of his speeches.

For a more modern example, see Trump and his campaign. He will almost certainly win primary (he's been holding the lead for almost the entire time since he started his campaign), and, if his supporters will intimidate enough people on the side of Democrats into not voting by threats of physical violence (and they're known for regularly beating up people, usually minorities, on pro-Trump rallies), he may very well win the title of President of USA, and turn it into fascist-land.

Protect freedom of speech by restricting it? That's one of those slippery slopes I don't care to be on. The American system where only very limited classes of speech can be restricted, and then only in the least burdening way possible, is ideal.

[smjjames]

Trying to construct an unlimited freedom of speech has a tendency to lead to losing said freedom of speech. Hitler was elected because he was popular, and he was popular because of his speeches.

For a more modern example, see Trump and his campaign. He will almost certainly win primary (he's been holding the lead for almost the entire time since he started his campaign), and, if his supporters will intimidate enough people on the side of Democrats into not voting by threats of physical violence (and they're known for regularly beating up people, usually minorities, on pro-Trump rallies), he may very well win the title of President of USA, and turn it into fascist-land.

I think you greatly overestimate his support, he is popular with his base, yes, but he is also disliked by a significant majority of republicans and I don't know of any members of Congress besides Cruz (who is angling to inherit Trumps base anyway) who remotely like trump. So, he'll have a hard time getting anything done.

There is of course, the impeachment proccess.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Spoiler: Russian freedom of speech looks like this (click to show/hide)

[miljan]

The S-400 anti-aircraft missile system have arrived at the Hmeimim airbase

Teleported, lol

It is obvious it was there for months

Yea, its teleported as it's impossible to move something like that in 24h. How obvious it is. Heh

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[miljan]

Trying to construct an unlimited freedom of speech has a tendency to lead to losing said freedom of speech. Hitler was elected because he was popular, and he was popular because of his speeches.

For a more modern example, see Trump and his campaign. He will almost certainly win primary (he's been holding the lead for almost the entire time since he started his campaign), and, if his supporters will intimidate enough people on the side of Democrats into not voting by threats of physical violence (and they're known for regularly beating up people, usually minorities, on pro-Trump rallies), he may very well win the title of President of USA, and turn it into fascist-land.

Protect freedom of speech by restricting it? That's one of those slippery slopes I don't care to be on. The American system where only very limited classes of speech can be restricted, and then only in the least burdening way possible, is ideal.

Aha, thats why snowden/Julian Assange run away after talking about the illegal things USA was doing.

Ehh, cant post funny  image to big

[smjjames]

Okay, Erdogan has said he would shoot down another jet if given the chance and Russia is drawing up revenge plans which involve financial stuff and possibly shutting off the oil.

I don't see this not escalating :/  At least Russia is willing to retaliate non-violently.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Montreux convention is shitty but I hope Turkey will find a way to close the straights to Russian ships. It will be hilarious.