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[miljan]

Extracted salient points from general grumpiness:

1: Putin is arming russian bases(?) with Surface-Air-Missile batteries (Bases because the russian ground presence in syria consists of one airbase, as far as we know)
2: ISIS has US armaments taken from the Iraqis government forces.
3: A US TOW anti-tank missile was used to blow up the downed pilot's rescue chopper on the ground
4: Turkey is arming ISIS
5: Turkey is arming other radical rebels
6:Something something NATO doesn't support turkey
7: Something something "don't look at the US and blame us"?
8: The FSA is arming ISIS
9: The FSA is ISIS
10: The FSA is Al-qaeda
11: The US is naive and dumb
12: Syria's autocratic, weak, despotic millitary dictatorship has the right to shoot down any of the aircraft from the various sides who are making bombing runs on ISIS (US, Turkey, France, Russia) and the FSA(Russia) because they weren't invited
13: It's the USA's fault that the USA, Russia, France, and Turkey have aircraft on combat missions in Syria.
14: The various countries and groups fighting ISIS should stop shooting down each others' planes

Not sure what so funny, but yes, russie should know better (as they also probably lack experience compared to west), and its their error for trusting turkey, but again it doesn't say a lot about technology and military power that you wanted to make a wrong conclusion from. 

Russia should have known better, but flying armed bombers near or into NATO airspace has been their air force's only source of amusement ever since the nuclear warheads were put back into the shed.

1. Yes, it has one air base, but not one air port, and S 400 is used for a long range attacks, so they can get their range to turkey.
2. Yes
3. Yes
4.5. Yes, as long as they keep fighting against assad
6. Not so sure about this
7. ohh, we should look at USA and blame them, after all they are the ones that invade the countries in middle east and fucked it up even more
8. Yes
9.10. Yes, or better said they where part of FSA 
12. No and yes.
13. They can shoot down any air plane, doesnt matter if they are bombing ISIS or just flying around through their territory
14. Yes

If you need something more explained ask

[Starver]

There is unfortunately  only one supper power and that is USA

My country ruled by Dinner Party. Dinner bigger than supper. My country win.

I could extend the pun to the Tea Party, but I'm betting that you're of the breed that that thinks it's "Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner, Supper", not "Breakfast, Dinner, Tea, Supper" (even ignoring Brunch/etc) and, even if not, it'd probably just be confusing.  So I won't.  Nothing to see here.  Move along...

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Russian has numbers and technology

Suuuure

Spoiler: Typical navigation system for Russian Airforce (click to show/hide)

[sprinkled chariot]

Russian has numbers and technology

Suuuure

Spoiler: Typical navigation system for Russian Airforce (click to show/hide)

Is anything wrong here?

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Civilian GPS navigator strapped to the dashboard

Meanwhile, looks like someone bombed Turkish convoy with humanitarian aid (uncomfirmed)

[sprinkled chariot]

Civilian GPS navigator strapped to the dashboard

Meanwhile, looks like someone bombed Turkish convoy with humanitarian aid (uncomfirmed)

But this stuff works.

[Vilanat]

Civilian GPS navigator strapped to the dashboard

Meanwhile, looks like someone bombed Turkish convoy with humanitarian aid (uncomfirmed)

Not officially, but there's plenty of photos...

[miljan]

This is what I think happened:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/turkish-f-16-shoots-down-russian-jet-for-disputed-airspace-violation/

[Shadowlord]

Well its more modern than most of the cournites (including most countries in europe) and is considered a regional power (with second strongest military in the world). There is unfortunately  only one supper power and that is USA

Turkey on the mind?

[smjjames]

This is what I think happened:
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2015/11/turkish-f-16-shoots-down-russian-jet-for-disputed-airspace-violation/

It's entirely possible that there was a miscalculation with the navigation system, but Russia doesn't want to admit that they were wrong if that was the case. Not sure if the Russian military aircraft have their own versions of the 'black boxes', but even if it did, I don't think the Russians would want anybody else to get their hands on it since despite being an old aircraft, it may have been fitted with stuff that Russia doesn't want their rivals to get their hands on.

Then again, it's inside Syria anyway and has probably been looted already by now and I don't see Russia being able to secure it.

[Sergarr]

Phahahaha. That's called excuses, incompetence, and complacency.  If you're not expecting to get shot down, then your whole chain of command is fucked up in the head. And yes, that included those idiots who kept flying a 117 down the same flight path over and over again.

If anything, getting shot in the back is worse, because the Ruskies should have been more than smart enough to expect something like that.

Well we weren't because we were assuming that Turkey was playing by the informal rules of the game, like, you know, literally every other NATO state. However, as it turns out, Turkey values it's regional interests more than keeping adherent to these rules.

It's not something you could reliably predict beforehand; I mean, you would need to somehow justify it to the other people among your leadership, and until a few days ago, the very idea of a NATO state just going and shooting at Russian airplane was pretty unthinkable.

For a suitable example of the same kind of mistake being made on your side, consider this: did NATO predict the annexation of Crimea?

[Willfor]

Actually, that's a great example of what you're trying to illustrate, but not in the way you brought it up. It's an example of Russia doing something against international law, and daring anyone to do anything about it. It's just that this time Turkey actually decided to call them out on it with military force.

Perhaps the brinkmanship should be more thought out next time.

[WealthyRadish]

Actually, that's a great example of what you're trying to illustrate, but not in the way you brought it up. It's an example of Russia doing something against international law, and daring anyone to do anything about it. It's just that this time Turkey actually decided to call them out on it with military force.

Perhaps the brinkmanship should be more thought out next time.

It's a valid example of what he's saying, and what you're saying isn't what he was getting at all. When the Ukrainian civil strife got going, I don't think NATO expected the result to be Russia annexing Crimea, and it's not crazy for them not to have anticipated the possibility until late in the progression. There's also no way Russia could've reasonably anticipated that Turkey would shoot down this plane, whether they had the technical right to or not. Sergarr's response was against the claim that Russia should've known better before violating the airspace, your use of the analogy (whether bashing Russia with it is justified or not) isn't related at all.

[Strife26]

You have a strange concept of reasonable assumptions and anticipations.

[Rolepgeek]

No, he's more or less right.

On the Turkey bit, not necessarily the Crimea bit, but I'm just an American so I'm probably getting my timelines wrong for Russia's various attempts to annex whatever looks even mildly tasty.