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Author Topic: European Union thread  (Read 50465 times)

mainiac

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #465 on: November 13, 2015, 12:13:46 am »

Before that the Roman Empire settled tribesmen into their lands hoping to fill the gaps in their ranks and tax coffers with warriors fleeing the Huns, for all the good it did them eaglephiles their lands were no longer theirs.

"For all the good it did them?"

The practice of accepting unwashed barbarians into the republic predated the empire by several generations.  Most of Africa, Gaul, Britain, Asia Minor, Egypt and Palestine were brought into after the unwashed barbarians started getting uppity and becoming senators.  So yeah, "all the good it did them" was Pax Romana and surviving for another five and a half centuries.

And ironically towards the end the patriotism of barbarians towards the empire is the only thing that kept things going.  There was a badass known as Flavius Aetius who is called "The Last True Roman" for defeating Attila the Hun.  The Last Roman was half-scythian and spent most of his childhood outside of the empire.  It wasn't the barbarians that doomed the empire, it was the three years of civil wars.  You could summarize the last century of roman history as "every time a roman was in charge they fucked things up, every time a barbarian was in charge the romans killed him as soon as he was finished stabalizing the empire."
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Sinistar

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #466 on: November 13, 2015, 03:30:06 am »

RIIIIIIVEEEEERRSSSS OOOOOFFF BLOOOOOOOOOOOOD

/thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc
Didn't watch it yet, but let me made some wild assumptions. The video will talk about or at least mention at some point:
- Islamization
- cultural jihad
- European Christian values being under attack
- [insert stock footage of full-face veiled women]
- migrants which will out-baby the true Europeans in the baby wars
- migrants that will steal our money
- migrants that will steal our jobs
- Islamization
- terrorists
- [insert stock footage of angry young moslems rioting/throwing food on the ground/burning flag of any sorts]
- jewish conspiracy
- Islamization
- European crumbling under onslaught of foreign culture
- foreign culture that is not culture
- at one point point out "this is not about a race and we are not a racist BUT..."
- "also, we are not nazis, we are just politically incorrect"
- EU is of the devil, we are being commanded from Brussels
- #NoTrueEuropeans
- [insert stock footage of grim looking skinheaded proud Aryan übermensch defenders of the Europe]
- some random quote from Qua'ran
- ISIS
- and last but not least, Islamization

I'll get back to you all in 20 mins, cheers.

edit: oh shit nevermind, 1 minute in and it's already apocalypse now, that dark brooding music oh shit my sides plz send help

edit2: close enough, forgot to add the "dirt rich fake refugees", "baby rapers everywhere", "libtards" and "Donald Trump" tag.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 03:54:32 am by Sinistar »
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Morrigi

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #467 on: November 13, 2015, 06:05:42 am »

RIIIIIIVEEEEERRSSSS OOOOOFFF BLOOOOOOOOOOOOD

/thread

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44vzMNG2fZc
Didn't watch it yet, but let me made some wild assumptions. The video will talk about or at least mention at some point:
- Islamization
- cultural jihad
- European Christian values being under attack
- [insert stock footage of full-face veiled women]
- migrants which will out-baby the true Europeans in the baby wars
- migrants that will steal our money
- migrants that will steal our jobs
- Islamization
- terrorists
- [insert stock footage of angry young moslems rioting/throwing food on the ground/burning flag of any sorts]
- jewish conspiracy
- Islamization
- European crumbling under onslaught of foreign culture
- foreign culture that is not culture
- at one point point out "this is not about a race and we are not a racist BUT..."
- "also, we are not nazis, we are just politically incorrect"
- EU is of the devil, we are being commanded from Brussels
- #NoTrueEuropeans
- [insert stock footage of grim looking skinheaded proud Aryan übermensch defenders of the Europe]
- some random quote from Qua'ran
- ISIS
- and last but not least, Islamization

I'll get back to you all in 20 mins, cheers.

edit: oh shit nevermind, 1 minute in and it's already apocalypse now, that dark brooding music oh shit my sides plz send help

edit2: close enough, forgot to add the "dirt rich fake refugees", "baby rapers everywhere", "libtards" and "Donald Trump" tag.
You speak as though you believe that terrorism and Islamism are no threat at all, and that Europe will quietly take every economic migrant out there without issue. You cannot dismiss out of hand an issue that's had tens of thousands of people protesting in the streets and that's driven very significant political change in multiple European countries. Do you think this is some kind of joke? Peoples' lives are being destroyed because their governments refuse to work in the interests of their own people.

It is abundantly clear that the status quo is totally unsustainable, that some cultures are simply incompatible with others, and that trying to force this issue will only result in violence. The real world is not a multicultural paradise in which everyone gets along regardless of their beliefs.

Are you denying that 10 million people of a religion and cultures directly at odds with liberal democracy in the space of five years, into a country of 80 million, is a significant demographic threat?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 06:33:41 am by Morrigi »
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Dutchling

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #468 on: November 13, 2015, 07:58:36 am »

theyre all sausages i tell you!
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Helgoland

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #469 on: November 13, 2015, 08:13:24 am »

Quote
Peoples' lives are being destroyed
Pray tell, which people?

Also Buschkowsky is far from a neutral source.
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Reelya

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #470 on: November 13, 2015, 08:40:14 am »

10 million Syrian refugees in Germany? What, is literally everyone in Syria trying to move to Germany now? Clear bullshit on the face of it. Obviously the realistic numbers just aren't scary enough so people have to concoct pure fantasy numbers. You do know that it's not possible for more people to move from a country than the number that actually live there? xD 10 million would be literally half of Syria's entire population. There would basically be no-one left to fight in the civil war, because more or less the entire country would have moved to Germany. Well the rest of Europe won't have to worry about Syrians then will they? Because literally the entire world's supply of Syrians will be either living in Germany or moving to Germany very soon to join the rest of their family.

There's also a problem in that the population growth of Germany has been extremely slow. If they'd had an influx of 10 million people over five years, they'd be the fastest growing nation on Earth. Just. Didn't. Happen.

Anyway, short version. There are 742 million total Europeans, vs 22 million total Syrians. Even if ALL the Syrians decided to move to Europe, you're only looking at a 3% increase in total European nation population. But that assumes you have 100% of Syria's population leaving Syria and all going to Europe. Which is clearly bullshit no matter how you look at it.

The problem here is that the hype assumes there's 10 million Syrian refugees already here, and that's only the tip of the iceberg. But actual population numbers show how fucking retarded this whole thing is. Even if you add Syria+Iraq+Jordan+Lebanon+Libya together that's only a total population of less than 70 million. Even if all these nations literally emptied out and moved to Europe, they'd still only make up about 8% of the population of Europe.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 09:10:12 am by Reelya »
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mainiac

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #471 on: November 13, 2015, 09:29:11 am »

Even if all these nations literally emptied out and moved to Europe, they'd still only make up about 8% of the population of Europe.

Plus there would be tons of new clay for Serbia.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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XXSockXX

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #472 on: November 13, 2015, 09:46:25 am »

10 million Syrian refugees in Germany?
No. 10 mio from Syria and the rest of the Near East, the Middle East, Afghanistan, Afrika, the Balkans.

While I doubt we would handle that very well, you also need to consider that someone might have just pulled the number out of their ass. Now that the euphoria is over, the political debate is becoming kind of polarizing and Merkel gets a lot of pressure from within her own party.
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Sinistar

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #473 on: November 13, 2015, 11:16:05 am »

Started writting but it took me some time. Originally an answer to Morrigi, but anyone welcome to chew through this wall of text

You are so way off the target here it's not even funny. Congratz, have a cookie. Or, alternatively, take a step or two back and try to see the both sides of the coin. Again.

I won't expect you to know or keep track of every post I've made on this or similar topic, so I guess I'll say it to you directly - no, I do not think terrorism is NOT a threat. It IS. Terrorism, by definition, is designed to spread terror amongst general public, which is not responsible at best or only indirectly responsible at worst for whatever grievances the perpetrator has against said populace. It is the means of bringing war and violence to those who do not wish to have anything with it. And while saying "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" is completely open for legit discussion, we shall ignore that now for the purpose of staying focused on the original misconception of terrorism being a joke or not. It is not. For the third time. We clear on that? Good, because we are moving on. Strap on, you are in for a ride.

Islamization? Tell me, what do you mean by that? Is it the amount of kebab shops that have grown on every corner of every street like fungus after rain? Is it dark skinned, bearded man that lead a group of veiled woman around shopping groceries and talking amongst themselves in non-native language? That guy Muhammed that hangs with Johan and boys down at the pub every Friday evening? Oh, wait, you mean the radical Islam that calls for sharia law, burning of unbelievers, clerics recruiting teenagers to fight for that or another khalifate etc.? Oh yeah, problem. Big time. Islam has problems, plain and simple. Only those problems aren't plain and simple. From how the whole inter-sectarian tensions due to the many interpretation of Qua'ran that make the Protestant vs. Catholicism split seems like an ordinary day at the picnic park to how Islam being official state religion in many countries does a bit more than just slightly spice up the whole mess, but there is one main problem – Islam just didn't reach the Enlightenment period yet. Or it did and it got swollowed due to many reasons, depends on your interpretation. I like hearing complaints about having the right to draw Muhammed. I can only laugh, saying how in the middle ages you too had all the rights to question the Bible. But that didn't do you any good because if you did, to stake with you. It took a whole lot of time for the scientist of yore to be able to publicly discuss heliocentric system without the fear of the Pope going medieval up their collective asses. And Islam is the same currently. Not nearly enoug moderate voices, lots of loud radicals. And it is any secular's state general fault if they do not prosecute extremist and promote moderates in return, no doubt about that. But guess what, "Islamization" is still a buzzword. A scare word. Word you can use for anything Islam related because it invokes the fear of being overcome. Globalization, Christianization, imperialism, etc. It has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? Tells the story of how in [insert appropriately apocalyptic number of years] we will all be reciting Qua'ran 5 times a day. You don't need to rationalize that Islam, like Christianity and ANY other organized movement with rigid, dogmatic agenda in order to not gain too much power needs to be ultimately supervised by more neutral, higher force, e.i. secular state, be it democratic or (hilariously, it works sometimes) dictatorial. It is a word of concern, a threat. It's a rallying call for the "Gasp! A moslem!" mob. Yeah, you heard me, mob. As in, a mass of hot-headed people driven by some emotion-fueled agenda.

Because that brings me to our next point in discussion - namely "tens of thousands of people protesting in the streets". I don't know about you, but I've experienced racial clashes in the past, 90's specifically. Neo-nazis vs. second-generation "southerners". Seen them both. Southerners extorting you for money on the street. Nazis doing the same but being a bit more imaginative about it by forcing you to pay for granite cubes (it's either you buy it or get your head smashed by it, the joy).  My uncle got a pistol pulled on him in the middle of the nightly jog. Because he has black hair. Despite my family being "true-blood". There was talk how in [n] years we will all be speaking [insert foreign language]. Muh culture! It took years but in the end nothing happened – things just died down. But I digress, right, these people here are not nazis, my bad, just concerned citizens, yeah? My point - if there's some thing(s) history can teach us is that people are creatures of habit. And when any society, country-wide or otherwise, is experiencing an inner turmoil, be it due to economical, political or other reasons, the best way for said society from falling apart is by focusing on the OUTER enemy. 90's was Turks and Balkaners. 70's had Paki and other untermensh. 20's, 30's, 40's had jews. Going some decades further back it was the yellow peril. Further, the filthy negros who white man had holy duty of showing the light. And be my guest, take a look through out the history and you're bound to find time and again how pure-blooded society had to defend against the invasion of uncivilized, filthy barbarians, who's culture is incompatible with theirs and they mean an imminent threat to the existence of humanity as we know it. Where am I going with that, you ask (by the way, congratulations on coming this far but we still have ways to go so have some more cookies and hot milk)? The people marching down the streets shout "[insert coutry] to the [insert countrymen]!" are not here because their existence is at stake. They are doing that because they are frakking human. Despite all our fancy advances, scientific or social, we still boil down to warring tribes. We are doing better, we are. But those tens of thousand of people didn't took the the streets because each and every one of them is or was in danger caused by immigrants but because said immigrants aren't "ours". "Cultural differences" and all that. Now take a look on the other side – lots of angry bearded man talking about supremacy of their own tribe. Shocking! Hey pot and kettle, did you hear, we've just discovered people think alike!

And with everything said above it should be obvious no Poe's law has to be invoked on the topic of what will happen in the future. Seamless, no-problems integration? You wish! There will be riots, there will be violence. But not because of one side, but because there is NO sides. It's just people pushing the "I'm better than you" on each other. No, some people simply don't get along with each other. And when fecal matter hits the propeller, they go outside shouting slogans, waving flags.  There is nothing new about. As is there no "new face of the right". This right has been here since before uncle Adolf swam in his fathers balls. And since beginning of the economical crisis we've seen rise of the far right, dissatisfied with the politics at home and those at Brussels. And it has become increasingly common to use native culture and native blood as an excuse to further various political goals so all this political changes are not surprising, "only" frakking troublesome. See above – inner crisis and outer enemy. Anyways, the right has reared it's ugly head yet again, for it was never dead. So if you think there is anything new about the right then it si you who must be joking.

But speaking of jokes – you got one thing kinda right. I was not taking things seriously in my previous post. To be exact, I did not take the video seriously. Because it's a joke. It's a piece of one-sided propaganda and that's so obvious it's funny. The far right isn't new, it only got modernized a bit. When in the past it was up to nazis and such using connections, personal favors and violence to gain publicity, everyone can use internet now. Everyone can use multiple outlets to further their cause, even the people from Daesh. Everyone can show only one side of the story and paint the picture in 256 shades of gray if so desires. That's called propaganda. Be it guy talking about his balls [insert clip of innocent Aryan girls here], the one who can't get woman in a camp [insert clip of innocent Aryan girls here] or the news about southern-looking rapists [insert clip of innocent Aryan girls here], various clips of black people beating on white or just a lone desperate housewife begging the Europe to do SOMETHING because she is the victim here, boy does it look like Europe is about to collapse yesterday. The video is shit but you know what – it's problem is not only that it's such ridiculous propaganda. The problem is it doesn't offer a damn solution. And by solution I mean taking a step back and looking at the both sides of the coin. There, we came full circle. All the angry marches from either "nationalists" or jihadist won't solve the problem. And what is the problem? The problem is two-fold: first, we need a cool headed approach. Right now, this whole mess is an emotion driven idiocy. We need to cool the frakk down and say – listen, we can't just completely open borders. These people need to be processed in orderly fashion. And on the other hand, building fences and letting people camp on your borders is stupid. There are tons of people out there and what are you going to do? Send them back? Oh so after all that "no miggrants living off muh money!" you are after all using my money on migrants, only that instead of finding a solution you are just sending the problem back to it's starting location. Good job. Those people are here and what will you do with them? Educate them, socialize them, get them a job and off benefits as soon as possible so the start giving back to the coutry. Sure it's not so damn simple, I know that, and mainiac will probably jell at me I don't know shit about economy. But if EU was so interested in solving this it would do that back when the majority of people was back in Greece. Or stop being such a sorry excuse of a "union" and actually do more to make all of the countries equal instead of spending years of saving the sinking Greece. A pipe, dirty communist dream – relocate wealth so the Greece would offer the same choices money-,  job- and just general life-wise as Germany. Fantasy, pure fantasy! But if Greece wasn't in such sorry state then there would be no need to even discuss the Dublin convention. People would stay where the money is. Because you can tell me tall tales about economical migrant but even when the war-refugees would pick Germany over Greece then you know where we at.
Oh, and the second part of the problem? The world is more connected than we want to think. If crapper hits ventilator on middle East the aftershock WILL hit the EU. But we were fine with that so long as the refugees didn't reach us, then suddenly it's the end of Europe. Dunno, maybe we should all just start cooperating with each other or something, different culture my bottoms. I don't know where I'm going with this fantasy, but I for one know I will advocate we put more effort into solving problems that are "not our own" rather to go outside and cry about my culture. Because that's what I want, a concrete solution, not some well-packaged fuel to the fire that should have died down long ago. Also pro-tip, my culture has been eroded a lot more by American talk-shows than by kebab.
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SaberToothTiger

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #474 on: November 13, 2015, 11:51:38 am »

Sinistar, to not clog the thread with hugeball quotes I will simply say that I agree with you wholeheartedly.

But to be fair, your effort was wasted. What you have written will probably have no effect on our opinions, both collective and individual, and while I enjoyed reading it, I do think that perhaps we should just calm down a bit. I really wouldn't want this to descend into shitlording from either of you. I think both of you are intelligent people, but I believe that we should think about this. We can't just throw the Syrians into the sea, for fuck's sake, but we can't just let them all in. Selectively letting only a part of them in is now also will hurt a lot, as it may increase tensions with the actual refugees. The ones that aren't refugees at all but instead go in here to live in a better place will not care about some hilarious wall being built by dem southeners. They will build that wall for a year and I'll dig under it in a week. How do you think it will change the ambitions of the Syrians? Will they just say: fuck it, let's go to my beloved bumfuck homeland where there is a civil war going on and is a playfield for Russians and Americans to participate in a dick measuring contest? No, they'll just do the same calculation that I did. Now it's too late to do anything the simple way, I guess.

And now I realized I brought nothing into the discussion. I'll just sit in my corner...
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smjjames

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #475 on: November 13, 2015, 11:52:58 am »

*goes into thread*

*gets whacked by wall of text*
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Loud Whispers

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #476 on: November 13, 2015, 11:53:46 am »

RIIIIIIVEEEEERRSSSS OOOOOFFF BLOOOOOOOOOOOOD
WHOOOOO'S GONNNAAA LIIIIIVE

"For all the good it did them?"
The practice of accepting unwashed barbarians into the republic predated the empire by several generations.  Most of Africa, Gaul, Britain, Asia Minor, Egypt and Palestine were brought into after the unwashed barbarians started getting uppity and becoming senators.  So yeah, "all the good it did them" was Pax Romana and surviving for another five and a half centuries.
The Gauls were brought in over the Rhine in unmanagable amounts in 405-6 and even after they were successfully settled the resulting loss of land and revenue contributed to their decline. Rome would die 6 decades later :D
Personally I place more emphasis on the Angles, Turks and especially Texan ones though. Hahahahaha, Texans immigrating into Mexico and displacing the Mexicans. Hahahahaha!

10 million Syrian refugees in Germany? What, is literally everyone in Syria trying to move to Germany now? Clear bullshit on the face of it.
Hahahaha, you believe they're Syrian?
Earlier in 2014 amongst first time asylum seekers the proportion of Syrians was around 10-15%, not accounting for second time asylum seekers, fake Syrians, those coming by sea nor immigrants who authorities fail to log. Eurostat has 700,000 asylum seekers in total logged across the EU despite countries like Germany alone taking in 750,000 illegal immigrants yearly, set to rise to 800,000 - conservative estimates. Measuring by asylum applications only takes into account those who bother to apply for asylum and takes their word for it.
By EU statistics the immigrants are coming from all over the world, everywhere from Sub-Saharan Africa, North Africa, the Middle East, Southern Asia and Eastern Asia (and also the Balkans)
I assure you the population of the entire southern hemisphere is much larger than that of Syria :)

There's also a problem in that the population growth of Germany has been extremely slow. If they'd had an influx of 10 million people over five years, they'd be the fastest growing nation on Earth. Just. Didn't. Happen.
Immigrants in Germany swell to record high 11 million
Lol

Anyway, short version. There are 742 million total Europeans, vs 22 million total Syrians immigrants. Even if ALL the Syrians immigrants decided to move to Europe, you're only looking at a 3% increase in total European nation population.
No one in Eastern Europe, Western Europe, Southern Europe or Northern Europe is going to make a difference to the displacement Sweden and Germany has inflicted upon themselves. It is more like 80 million Germans and 9 million Swedes taking in mass immigration from the entire world. Swede statistics from 2011 show Swedes were already 85% and declining and that was before they had 4 years of immigration so hard even they panicked and tried to stop it. Germany will take longer, they do not know how many immigrants exactly they have taken and once all the old Germans have died they'll be moving down a lot from the 90% they were in 2010. Also even then, you will lose the cities first - all the Germans in the countryside will do nothing in the cities. Perhaps in that regard Sweden is most fucked because most of their country's Swedes live in the cities. But yeah it's by German statistics that it's risen to 1,500,000 yearly, still rising. The 10 million in 5 years thing is really quite conservative.

*goes into thread*
*gets whacked by wall of text*
Yeah on the readability front just use paragraphs
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 12:03:05 pm by Loud Whispers »
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smjjames

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #477 on: November 13, 2015, 12:00:33 pm »

*goes into thread*
*gets whacked by wall of text*
Yeah on the readability front just use paragraphs

It was less that and more giant post. It could use a few additional paragraphs. Not to distract from what sinistar was saying.
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mainiac

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #478 on: November 13, 2015, 01:52:59 pm »

The Gauls were brought in over the Rhine in unmanagable amounts in 405-6 and even after they were successfully settled the resulting loss of land and revenue contributed to their decline. Rome would die 6 decades later :D

So after five centuries of successful immigration policies, you blame century six for all the problems.  Or it could be the three hundred years of civil wars and the population declines...
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: European Union thread
« Reply #479 on: November 13, 2015, 02:06:35 pm »

The Gauls were brought in over the Rhine in unmanagable amounts in 405-6 and even after they were successfully settled the resulting loss of land and revenue contributed to their decline. Rome would die 6 decades later :D
So after five centuries of successful immigration policies, you blame century six for all the problems.  Or it could be the three hundred years of civil wars and the population declines...
Blame? Rome wasn't burnt in a day (except when the Vandals did it ha). It goes to show there is such thing as a successful immigration policy and what a failure looks like, five centuries of settlement and success was possible up until they brought in unmanageable amounts and then their lands were lost ^_^
Again, if that Breton had not invited Angles and Saxons to Britain there'd have been no Anglo-Saxon Britain. If the Ottomans hadn't been invited to Western Europe to fight for the Byzantines there'd have been no great Turkish Empire of Europe. Or 1834, where as I've now just found out, the Mexicans tried to stop immigration from America but illegal immigration continued nonetheless - and at any rate their efforts were much too late, as Texans already outnumbered Mexicans at that point. The rest is history, Texas is USA clay now :D
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