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Total Members Voted: 23

[redwallzyl]

The Gauls were brought in over the Rhine in unmanagable amounts in 405-6 and even after they were successfully settled the resulting loss of land and revenue contributed to their decline. Rome would die 6 decades later :D

So after five centuries of successful immigration policies, you blame century six for all the problems.  Or it could be the three hundred years of civil wars and the population declines...

Blame? Rome wasn't burnt in a day (except when the Vandals did it ha). It goes to show there is such thing as a successful immigration policy and what a failure looks like, five centuries of settlement and success was possible up until they brought in unmanageable amounts and then their lands were lost ^_^
Again, if that Breton had not invited Angles and Saxons to Britain there'd have been no Anglo-Saxon Britain. If the Ottomans hadn't been invited to Western Europe to fight for the Byzantines there'd have been no great Turkish Empire of Europe. Or 1834, where as I've now just found out, the Mexicans tried to stop immigration from America but illegal immigration continued nonetheless - and at any rate their efforts were much too late, as Texans already outnumbered Mexicans at that point. The rest is history, Texas is USA clay now :D

the main problem with invaders was that they came in on their own terms and we not able to be disarmed and so asserted their autonomy in the empire.

[mainiac]

Blame? Rome wasn't burnt in a day (except when the Vandals did it ha). It goes to show there is such thing as a successful immigration policy and what a failure looks like, five centuries of settlement and success was possible up until they brought in unmanageable amounts and then their lands were lost ^_^

Wow, you should explain that to this dude called Loud Whispers who was saying we were witnessing history in the making because mass immigration causes countries to collapse.  Here you are saying that mass immigration was a huge success for centuries.

[Loud Whispers]

How so good sir? :)

[Askot Bokbondeler]

If the Ottomans hadn't been invited to Western Europe to fight for the Byzantines

ottomans?

[Loud Whispers]

If the Ottomans hadn't been invited to Western Europe to fight for the Byzantines

ottomans?

Medieval scholars always said never ever hire mercenaries :D

[Askot Bokbondeler]

If the Ottomans hadn't been invited to Western Europe to fight for the Byzantines

ottomans?

Medieval scholars always said never ever hire mercenaries :D

especially dem moslems, right? still i'd like to know what your talkin about

[Loud Whispers]

especially dem moslems, right? still i'd like to know what your talkin about

I was gonna joke with you but then I realized that funding Al Qaeda and the other 'moderates' turned out swimmingly

[Grim Portent]

If the Ottomans hadn't been invited to Western Europe to fight for the Byzantines

ottomans?

Medieval scholars always said never ever hire mercenaries :D

especially dem moslems, right? still i'd like to know what your talkin about

He's referring to European cultures/civilizations that ended when they hired large numbers of mercenaries to supplement their own flagging forces and wound up being assimilated into the mercenary populations culture. One of the primary examples is when the Mercians (I think it was Mercia at least, been a while since I read up on that) hired Saxons to fight Danish raiders and wound up with cross cultural assimilation turning the two groups into Anglo-Saxons, which went on to be the dominant culture of England.

He's using them as examples of smaller immigrant populations having large impacts on the culture of the area they migrate to.

[Askot Bokbondeler]

He's referring to European cultures/civilizations that ended when they hired large numbers of mercenaries to supplement their own flagging forces and wound up being assimilated into the mercenary populations culture. One of the primary examples is when the Mercians (I think it was Mercia at least, been a while since I read up on that) hired Saxons to fight Danish raiders and wound up with cross cultural assimilation turning the two groups into Anglo-Saxons, which went on to be the dominant culture of England.

He's using them as examples of smaller immigrant populations having large impacts on the culture of the area they migrate to.

i know. i'm asking for clarification on one of the examples

[Descan]

Yeah I've literally never heard of Byzantium hiring Ottomans. Pretty sure it was a straight conquest by the Turks of a weakened Byzantium, not something about mercenaries.

[smjjames]

Theres a shooting that happened in Paris, CNN just broke the news a min ago.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34814203

EDIT: Wait, BBC says theres an explosion now? CNN didn't say that yet, then again, it's just happened and things are chaotic.

Edit: Now CNN said theres explosions now.

Geeze, I feel for you guys over there.

[Culise]

Yeah I've literally never heard of Byzantium hiring Ottomans. Pretty sure it was a straight conquest by the Turks of a weakened Byzantium, not something about mercenaries.

Yep.  I have no idea what he's talking about, either.  Even if you go one more and just look at Anatolian Turks in general (the Osmanli family only emerged in the 14th century, after the Turks had been present for a quarter-millenium), the Turks seized inner Anatolia by force of arms (remember Manzikert?).  The only thing I can think of is that he's referring to the marriage of Orhan to Theodora and subsequent alliance, through which Theodora's brother (a pretender to the purple mantle and, briefly, a successful one) allowed the Turks to raid his enemies in Gallipoli and, from there, Thrace, but by that point the Ottomans were so strong and the Eastern Romans so weak from civil war that being "permitted" in rather than forcing their way in was in no way a practical distinction. 

[redwallzyl]

same thing on npr. explosions and shooting. what the hell is going on?!

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/11/13/455943961/violence-reported-in-paris

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

what the hell is going on?!

I have the same question.

[PanH]

At least 60 dead atm. 6 shootings in different places, and explosions.

Edit : apparently, some of the shooters screamed "For Syria".