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Author Topic: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!  (Read 6324 times)

Astral

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #45 on: September 30, 2015, 09:35:55 pm »

How is holdig the jews to the same standard as everyone else any different

I think most people tend to incorrectly assume that kosher standards are safer/nicer/cleaner/more humane/etc, rather than a largely weird and arbitrary set of rules.
Most of which were founded during the dung ages as hygiene standards bound to religious rules. They had some good effects in improving health so people stuck with it, but with safety levels of today (or at least drastically better medical care) they really should think about updating their code to the 21st century.

Though this part confused me a bit:

Quote
By biblical law the knife may be made from anything not attached directly or indirectly to the ground

But they made the knives from metal, which came from the ground. Religious rules make no sense.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 09:38:01 pm by Astral »
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Neonivek

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #46 on: September 30, 2015, 09:36:41 pm »

Yeah but don't you want to feed Americans 3 times the population in wheat alone? :P (that was always such an odd thing to say... As if Wheat is an efficient crop for health concerns)
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Dansmithers

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #47 on: September 30, 2015, 09:56:35 pm »

Option 1
Create a first person view nightmare simulator where you're the pig and your task is to escape the slaughterhouse.

No pig is going to try and escape a slaughterhouse, no more than you would try to escape your regular house. This is very similar to where (most) pigs live out their entire lives.
Option 2
Include multiple romance options and make it kind of like a dating sim, with several cute pig girls to choose from. Show them very happy and make the animals all kind and nice and lovable.Then introduce act 2 as what happens when you're taken to slaughter. End act 2 with the horrific realization that the friends and lovers you had during act 1 didn't make it out.

So... an unrealistic portrayal of pig behavior in order to make us feel bad?
Option 3
Put the player in the role of the slaughterhouse owner.

Honestly, this one is ok, I just wouldn't really feel sympathetic for the pigs
Option 4
Do what I have Candy Get in the Van did. But design the game to allow every possible sort of ranch, each of varying levels of cruelty, and keep showing them those missing achievements, so that the completionist streak compels them to play the darker, more sinister play styles.

Fine too, but not economically sound or applicable to most people
Not to be a spoilsport, but trying to convince people that "meat is cruel and unnatural" isn't going to get anyone new. I would go with an approach where you have the choice whether to feed starving kids in Africa and be less rich, or get really rich, but not in an ethical way. Either way, pigs get killed, but one way at least more humans live
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Cthulhu

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #48 on: September 30, 2015, 10:11:16 pm »

My favorite vegan post ever was trying to justify it by saying humans were natural herbivores and explaining the traits that separated herbivores and carnivores.

It was magical.  Independent sources unrelated to the subject of human diet not only disproved her, but actually convinced me that humans were natural carnivores, at least going by her own description of an carnivore's digestive system.  It was the single worst argument I've ever seen.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2015, 10:45:42 pm by Cthulhu »
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Yoink

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #49 on: September 30, 2015, 10:25:07 pm »

Bay12 really isn't the right place to ask for feedback on such an idea. :P
Although I do love LB's ideas. Any of those would be pretty awesome.


Incidentally, it is apparently World Vegetarian Day today.
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Bohandas

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #50 on: September 30, 2015, 11:28:46 pm »

If you wanted a rationale for switching from meat to plants, producing meat requires a huge amount of water,

Isn't water a renewable resource?
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Bohandas

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #51 on: October 01, 2015, 01:01:54 am »

Yes, but I'm pretty sure none of our food is farmed in desert regions. And regardless it's still a renewable resource; it's not used up, just moved around and mixed with different things
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Neonivek

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #52 on: October 01, 2015, 03:55:15 am »

Water, even fresh water, is a renewable resource... Barely.
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kokoszka

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #53 on: October 01, 2015, 06:05:24 am »

Bay12 really isn't the right place to ask for feedback on such an idea. :P


Really? It seems that our idea sparked a healthy discussion with a lot of original ideas being thrown around. Thank you B12 :)
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Shadowlord

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #54 on: October 01, 2015, 07:14:05 am »

Yes, but I'm pretty sure none of our food is farmed in desert regions. And regardless it's still a renewable resource; it's not used up, just moved around and mixed with different things

There's a bunch of farming done in the desert in (for instance) Arizona. Cotton isn't food, but it still uses huge amounts of water to grow it in the desert.

Getting plants to grow in the Sonoran Desert is made possible by importing billions of gallons of water each year. Cotton is one of the thirstiest crops in existence, and each acre cultivated here demands six times as much water as lettuce, 60 percent more than wheat. That precious liquid is pulled from a nearby federal reservoir, siphoned from beleaguered underground aquifers and pumped in from the Colorado River hundreds of miles away. Greg Wuertz has been farming cotton on these fields since 1981, and before him, his father and grandfather did the same. His family is part of Arizona’s agricultural royalty. His father was a board member of the Central Arizona Water Conservation District for nearly two decades. Wuertz has served as president of several of the most important cotton organizations in the state.

But what was once a breathtaking accomplishment — raising cotton in a desert — has become something that Wuertz pursues with a twinge of doubt chipping at his conscience. Demand and prices for cotton have plummeted, and he knows no one really needs what he supplies. More importantly, he understands that cotton comes at enormous environmental expense, a price the American West may no longer be able to afford.

Basically he, and the other cotton farmers in arizona and california, are only still growing cotton because of government subsidies which make it almost impossible to lose money on it.
Quote
Rather than paying direct subsidies to cotton farmers, starting this year the USDA will use taxpayer dollars to buy farmers additional crop insurance. Policies that once covered up to around 70 percent of farmers’ losses can now be supplemented with new coverage covering up to 90 percent, cushioning the shallowest of losses. The lucrative marketing loan program that serves as a sort of price guarantee also remains in place.
Right now, though, the stubbornly low price of cotton is making Wuertz nervous that the new, enhanced insurance program won’t deliver the same revenues as the old direct subsidies. He’s temporarily cut back, then, planting less cotton this year and only the most valuable strains.
Still, the more than 161,000 acres of cotton that were planted in Arizona in 2013 accounted for almost one out of every five acres of the state’s irrigated farmland. Many believe the insurance program is likely to keep the practice going because it limits most — if not all — downsides, encouraging farmers to take big chances with limited resources.
“If I knew my 401k was guaranteed to not fall below 85 percent of its current level and there was no limit on the upside,” said Craig Cox a senior vice president at the Environmental Working Group, who was a former staff member for the Senate committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry, “my portfolio would be a lot riskier than it is.”

Quote
California and Arizona are able to produce more than twice as much cotton on each acre they plant as can cotton powerhouses like Texas and Georgia because they irrigate their fields more often. But that also means that they use two to four times as much water per acre.
From almost the beginning, Arizona’s cotton farmers understood they were withdrawing from a finite account. “There was a sense the water would run out,” said Wuertz’s father, Howard, now 89. “You could tell there was going to be an end to it, even in the 1950s.”
They’ve made it last, in large part, because as the aquifers beneath their feet were depleted, the state brought in new supplies, mainly from the Colorado River.

The water taken from the Colorado for cotton is water that could have gone to other crops (which would admittedly still be in a desert), or to cities with people in them - and it's experiencing a severe drought (which the article, and IIRC the other articles in that series, talk about. This one is just chiefly about cotton).
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 07:18:21 am by Shadowlord »
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ZebioLizard2

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #55 on: October 01, 2015, 08:04:07 am »

And those states are those that are cracking down on residential for using too much water, despite them barely using in comparison.
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Neonivek

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #56 on: October 01, 2015, 08:06:53 am »

And those states are those that are cracking down on residential for using too much water, despite them barely using in comparison.

America is rather Conservative. Which generally means they like to put the responsibility on the citizens and leave business and industry to do what it wants uninhibited.

That and frankly, the crack downs are more against watering lawns which kind of have their own sets of problems.
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Bohandas

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #57 on: October 01, 2015, 10:28:31 am »

And those states are those that are cracking down on residential for using too much water, despite them barely using in comparison.

America is rather Conservative. Which generally means they like to put the responsibility on the citizens and leave business and industry to do what it wants uninhibited.

That and frankly, the crack downs are more against watering lawns which kind of have their own sets of problems.

Yeah. Watering your lawn is like farming a completely useless crop.
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BFEL

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #58 on: October 01, 2015, 11:00:17 am »

-snip-
I, personally, was on about sheer efficiency. The fact of the matter is that you lose 10-20% of the nutrition each step of a food chain (excluding the first one which is 80-90%, but because we'd be doing that one by eating plants it's impossible to avoid), so it's just more efficient to grow and eat plants when and where possible, and animals where you can't grow crops but they can survive.

Obviously in pursuit of efficiency we should just install solar cells into ourselves and tie them into our metabolic system.
Or better yet, just tie our metabolisms into internal batteries and plug into the nearest outlet when we get hungry.
We can use the acres we save from the defunct farms and ranches to make giant solar arrays.

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BurnedToast

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Re: Pigsodus a pig drama simulator - Oink!
« Reply #59 on: October 01, 2015, 11:01:50 am »

If you wanted a rationale for switching from meat to plants, producing meat requires a huge amount of water,

Isn't water a renewable resource?

Sort of.

A lot of water used for farming comes from deep underground aquifers. They naturally replenish themselves (that's how they got there in the first place) but it's a slow process, and we are using them much much faster than they can refill.

Once they run out, they will refill eventually... but it's the sort of thing that takes so long (~6,000 years for the ogallala aquifer for example) we can consider it non-renewable.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2015, 11:15:18 am by BurnedToast »
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