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Poll

Civ to Play? (Pick 3.)

America
- 2 (3.8%)
Arabia
- 0 (0%)
Aztecs
- 0 (0%)
Babylon
- 2 (3.8%)
Byzantines
- 2 (3.8%)
Carthage
- 1 (1.9%)
Celts
- 2 (3.8%)
China
- 2 (3.8%)
Dutch
- 1 (1.9%)
Egypt
- 1 (1.9%)
England
- 2 (3.8%)
France
- 2 (3.8%)
Germany
- 4 (7.5%)
Greece
- 2 (3.8%)
Hittites
- 2 (3.8%)
Inca
- 0 (0%)
India
- 0 (0%)
Iroquois
- 3 (5.7%)
Japan
- 4 (7.5%)
Korea
- 2 (3.8%)
Maya
- 0 (0%)
Mongols
- 1 (1.9%)
Ottomans
- 0 (0%)
Persia
- 4 (7.5%)
Portugal
- 1 (1.9%)
Rome
- 0 (0%)
Russia
- 3 (5.7%)
Spanish
- 1 (1.9%)
Sumeria
- 1 (1.9%)
Vikings
- 6 (11.3%)
Zulu
- 2 (3.8%)

Total Members Voted: 19

Voting closed: September 24, 2015, 07:04:20 am


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Author Topic: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game (NP: Persia, 150 AD)  (Read 4140 times)

FearfulJesuit

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Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game (NP: Persia, 150 AD)
« on: September 17, 2015, 07:04:20 am »

So, Helgoland and I've been talking, and we'd like to see a succession game for Civ III Complete on the forums. I don't know if anyone else plays Civ III, but it's a classic, and many succession games have been played on other forums- the turn-based format makes it a good fit.

We've decided on playing at Monarch level, since it's a reasonably challenging level that isn't going to completely fuck us over (Monarch to Emperor, the next hardest level, is known among Civ players as "the Great Leap" for a reason), and on a Large or Huge map since it'll make for a nice long game. Everything else is still up in the air at this point. I'm going to set up a poll that allows you to pick up to three civilizations, and run it for a week. After that week's up, I'll run a second poll on the top vote-getters for three days, and we'll be off!

Turn List:

1. FearfulJesuit
2. Helgoland

In your posts below, please indicate if you'd like to play a turn, and choose whether you'd prefer an Archipelago, Continents or Pangaea map. For the sake of simplicity, we'll play with a low level of barbarians (Roaming), and leave climate up to the RNG so that we don't have to bicker about it.

If you've never played Civ III before, we're working with the Complete edition on Steam. Since Civ III came out more than ten years ago, it's pretty cheap- $5 on Steam right now- and it's got great replay value, so I highly recommend it. It's not too difficult to play, but I suggest you look up a few articles on worker management and acquaint yourself with the mechanics of the game (Civ IV or V players will obviously find it pretty familiar). I would really recommend looking at Ision's reviews of the individual civilizations before you vote above- although any civilization can make for an interesting game, there are better civs and worse civs.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 01:53:44 am by FearfulJesuit »
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 07:06:11 am »

(post reserved)
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BFEL

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 07:10:25 am »

Hittites are obviously the best civ, as they have tit in their name.

(won't be playing a turn, as I have Civ V and don't really feel like paying for a step backward :P)
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Indeed, I do this.

Helgoland

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 09:26:25 am »

PTW.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 11:52:55 am »

Hittites are obviously the best civ, as they have tit in their name.

(won't be playing a turn, as I have Civ V and don't really feel like paying for a step backward :P)

+1 yes, definitely do this!

For those who can't be bothered to read all the reviews, Korea, Spain and Portugal are among the worst.  So, if you'd like to vote that way, there you go.

Or just go with the Tit civ.  That works too.

Culise

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 11:55:01 am »

Posting to watch.  I haven't properly played Civ 3 since Civ 4 came out, though I did reinstall it recently.  Maybe I should give it a whirl again, though I was never really fond of ICS...
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Helgoland

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 12:14:02 pm »

Do eet

Also Persia FTW! Half-price libraries!
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

FearfulJesuit

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2015, 02:08:54 pm »

OK, since nobody's signed up and the thread's been quite quiet, Helgo and I are committing to swap turns indefinitely, though there is always a sign-up spot available. We're going to take thirty turns each, at least initially, which gives us fifteen turns over the span of a full game played to 2050 (though I would be shocked if it takes us that long to win). I hope that even if nobody else signs up, this game will prove entertaining enough that any future succession games would have other takers.

Because we're the only players and we both voted for Persia, Persia it is. (Why do people have such a soft spot for the Vikings?) We're doing a Large map- any smaller and the game will be too short to be very interesting, and Huge maps are so big you just get lost in their vastness. I'm randomizing the planet starting conditions, keeping barbarians on Roaming.

Standard house rules (most of them stolen from the Civ 3 succession games forum) are:

1. No automating workers in any way, shape or form.
2. No Right-of-Passage abuse.
3. Please, for the love of god, don't ruin our trade reputation if you can help it. (Sometimes you can't).
4. Savescumming/restarting is only permissible for a really good reason (say, we find out we were stuck on a tiny island), and only with a large majority (unanimous with two players, I suppose...)

Let's begin!

World setup:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Civ setup. I've turned off the weirder rule variants, as well as the culturally linked start locations (makes things too predictable) and respawn AI players (annoying when you have to go chasing an extra civ down) buttons. I've chosen to preserve the random seed to prevent easy savescumming (a sin of which we're both guilty).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

4000 BC (Turn 1)

This is our start location:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Note a couple of things. First, there's some incense directly north of us, which is good- that's a luxury, and it also produces excess commerce. We're next to fresh water, which will allow us to grow our capital beyond size 6 without an aqueduct. Finally, we note a cow's head sticking out of the fog of war two spaces away. By moving our settler one tile west, we can start working that cattle immediately (otherwise we'd have to wait ten turns for our borders to expand), and we'll also be able to work what looks like some hills or mountains to the northwest that we can't work from our current spot. So I'll move both settler and worker west one tile, the settler to found our capital, and the worker to head for the cattle.

3950 BC (2)

We're up and running, and we can see everything that our capital will eventually be able to work:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's a pretty good start, although I wish that tundra were something else (we'll eventually turn it into forest, although not until Engineering).

Persepolis starts on a warrior, which can explore and guard our first settler. We also start work on Iron Working- our unique unit is an overpowered Swordsman, so we want to find out where the iron is early on and nab it before anyone else can.

3900 BC (3)

Nothing interesting. The worker is mining the cattle, and Persepolis is still working on its Warrior.

3850 BC (4)

Zzzz...

3800 BC (5)

...

...

3700 BC (7)

This turn, Persepolis completed its warrior, and we also got the cattle mined:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The warrior will start exploring northwest of the city, since that looks like our best hope for expansion, and the worker will put a road on the cattle.

3400 BC (12)

Northwest of Persepolis is mostly desert, but there's a river to the northeast which may be promising:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

We also contact the Zulu, who control that scout northeast of our warrior. We receive Ceremonial Burial (for temples, though we won't build any for a while), Pottery (for granaries), and 10 gil in exchange for Bronze Working and Alphabet.

3100 BC (18)

We spot a really good spot to build the Colossus northeast of Persepolis, at the mouth of the river we spotted earlier:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Our settler had previously been moving to the tile two moves directly north of him. I change his course to send him to the river mouth- we want the Colossus if we can at all get it. Looking back on the screenshots, I also started irrigating Persepolis's cattle this turn to turn it into a settler factory, thinking I'd switch it away from its granary and needed extra growth, but then don't switch its build, so uh...I irrigated and then un-irrigated a cow for no terribly good reason. Woops.

On the bright side, so long as it isn't permanent, the temporary population boost is useful...

2800 BC (turn 24)

Parsagadae is founded at the mouth of the river. It's piss-poor at production right now, so it will build a worker to improve the immediate area, and then begin work on the Colossus, possibly after building a Curragh for exploration.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

2590 BC (turn 29)

As my turn is about to end, we have a bit of an...interesting situation:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Shaka is known among Civ players for being a dick, so Parsagadae may be completely fucked. I'll find out next turn. We've just connected Incense to Persepolis- previously we were keeping it happy via luxury spending- and will finish the Granary soon, after which we'll need to build a settler to settle on the red star (assuming we don't need to build a military unit to protect against the Zulu).

2550 BC (turn 30)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Looks like we dodged a bullet for the moment, but we may want to build a warrior in Parsagadae before the Colossus to defend it (and get the military police bonus against sad faces and civil disorder), forgoing the Curragh- we need to get the Colossus ASAP. Again, next probable city site has been marked with a red star. After that we might want to look to our southeast, or the coast south-southeast of Parsagadae. Our worker is currently re-mining Persepolis's cattle now that the granary has been completed.

Aaaaand, the situation at the dawn of Turn 31:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I set Persepolis to build a settler since it demanded me to build something, but I otherwise haven't touched anything. Helgo, you can change it if you want to, though I think a settler is by far the best option.

You may want to turn the luxury slider up a notch until Persepolis builds its settler, since when it gets to size 4 with only one luxury and no garrison, it'll riot.

(The save itself is only a couple of megabytes- I'll get it to you off-forum).
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 02:15:46 pm by FearfulJesuit »
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Sheb

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game (NP: Persia, 2550 BC)
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2015, 06:23:46 am »

PTW
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Helgoland

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game (NP: Persia, 2550 BC)
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2015, 08:14:55 am »

Sorry, I forgot to make screenshots. New developments:

- Cleared out a couple barbarians to the south, encountering a couple tiles with dye on them.
- Encountered the Celts, they established a city on the west coast.
- Had our second city produce a spearman and then started the Colossus. To increase production, the hills were mined.
- Expanded along the river and started filling in territory to the south. To the north we're kind of wedged in by the Zulus and the Celts, but further exploration may show that there is enough unclaimed territory up there to warrant further expansion.
- Shaka's got half an army marching along our borders. This may look worrying, but they're not looking for a fight and leave peacefully when told to do so.

The save has more than 40000 characters, so I can't just paste it inside spoilers. Here's a dropbox link.
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game (NP: Persia, 2550 BC)
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2015, 08:36:11 am »

Got it. Starting now, editing into this post. Sheb will probably be up next.

OK, here's the situation in 1500 BC:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

We have some work to do. We've gotten a lot of good expansion done, but we're also horribly behind in tech- Helgo, did you do any tech brokering?- and we're underdeveloped worker-wise. I'm switching a number of military builds to fix that.

We also have no iron anywhere nearby. We need to fix that, and pray the Celts don't have it, since the Celtic unique unit is a swordsman with two movement points.

1375 BC (5): Persepolis builds its settler, which will go to the southeast to take advantage of some gold and fish. There are also some dyes south of us.

1275 BC (9): We pop Warrior Code from a hut, which is nice...but why were we so behind the tech leaders that we didn't have Warrior Code?

1250 BC (10):



Dammit!

We're still doing some exploring to our southeast, which is mostly tundra with some barbarians. No iron has appeared yet, either. I switch Pasargadae to a granary.

1225 BC (11): We complete Writing, and notice that nobody has Philosophy. We shoot for Philosophy, hoping that we may be able to get an expensive free tech and get back in the tech race.

We have some more settlers and workers, so expansion southeast is looking quite doable, and I'll have a curragh or two made so we can explore the coasts.

1150 BC (14): The Celts have completed the Oracle. The Zulu demand 22 gold, which we give them-we can't afford a war right now.

1075 BC (17): Turns out there's an isthmus to another landmass west of Persepolis. We get a city in and have it build a worker. We've actually gotten a few new cities in, and I'd like to get in a couple more before my turnset finishes.

950 BC (22): We get Philosophy, but the Celts already got to it, so no free tech for us. We still get Mysticism and 35 gil out of the Zulu for it. I start on Literature.

925 BC (23):



It's a good ten tiles away from our nearest city, in the far southeastern tundra, and a bit further away from our road network. But it's there and nobody else can get to it. I'll have our next settler go out to it-we need to get it soon,. Luckily we have a settler one turn away from being built in Gordium, and a worker stack building a road to the area. We can postpone our first war until we have Monarchy or Republic in hand, since a Golden Age in Despotism or Anarchy is mostly wasted-but not too much longer. Immortals are extremely powerful against spearmen but only decent against pikemen.

900 BC (25): Brennus demands gold. I fork it over, since we can't afford war until we get that iron.

825 BC (28): We may want to get a wonder in Persepolis soon- Sun Tzu's Art of War may be a good choice. Ideally, I'd like the Pyramids, and I've set it to prebuild them (since you can start building one wonder then switch to another one later on, keeping the shields), but I don't think we'll be able to grab it this late in the game.

We're still weaklings tech-wise, but in other areas we're actually quite strong. We'll have iron for immortals soon, and although the civs we'll be up against are more advanced than us, they're also considerably weaker. Right now we have eleven cities, with a twelfth scheduled to be built next turn, a settler for a thirteenth on its way to a spot in the desert north of Persepolis, and the settler for a fourteenth on its way to the iron; when I began this turnset we had seven cities. Our nearest size rivals, the Celts, have eight cities; the Zulu only have five.

730 BC (31): Aaaaaand that's the end of my turnset.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There are a couple notes for Sheb/Helgo:

-Ergili, on the western coast, is building a curragh to explore the landmass off the coast.
-There are two settlers out. When they stop, build a city where I've ordered them to go. The settler north of Persepolis has gotten to its settling spot this turn.
-The road to the iron is being done by two pairs of workers, in turns: worker stack A builds a road in one turn, then worker stack B moves to the next tile; turn ends. Then worker stack B builds another road, and repeat. Once you get into the city, move all four workers onto the iron to road it (don't need to mine it-that city's only purpose is to get the iron, so its production will be shit).
-There's a spearman that just moved to Persepolis for defense and to keep the city from rioting, so fortify it.
-Keep building workers. A good idea is to create a city that can act as a worker factory, which has a granary, makes at least 5 shields a turn, and can grow to size two in two turns, and have everyone else concentrate on other stuff. Pasargadae may be a good candidate for this, though you may have to drag one of Gordium's workers off of that oasis.
-Keep Persepolis on the Pyramids, keep building settlers in other towns until we get that iron, then build Immortals. We may also be able to improve our tech standing with some exploration; there's a curragh near Sardis going north through Zulu territory, and Samaria is also building a curragh that should go east.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 09:42:29 am by FearfulJesuit »
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Cicero

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game (NP: Persia, 730 BC)
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2015, 03:41:07 pm »

I'll sign up for a turn or two! I used to play a ton of civ 3 but I haven't played it for a while so I might be a bit rusty. I am very busy but 30 turns is a small enough committment that I should be able to do a couple turns of the succession game!
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Sheb

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game (NP: Persia, 730 BC)
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2015, 03:43:51 pm »

Go ahead and grab the save then, after a test game I've decided to postpone my turn until I have a clue what I'm doing.
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Helgoland

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game (NP: Persia, 730 BC)
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2015, 04:14:57 pm »

Yeah, I sort of never got the hang of tech brokering. That's what happens when you get hooked on goody hut save scumming, folks... Maybe we can get a couple techs as part of a peace treaty soon.

Down in that tundra our cities probably won't grow much beyond size two, right? We should consider an extremely dense settling layout then. We'll have lots of cities with shitty production, which means we'll get a decent unit flow overall, especially when we discover Engineering and can plant forests everywhere.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 05:31:34 am by Helgoland »
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Arguably he's already a progressive, just one in the style of an enlightened Kaiser.
I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

FearfulJesuit

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Re: Bay 12 Civ III Succession Game (NP: Persia, 730 BC)
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2015, 12:49:33 am »

I'll sign up for a turn or two! I used to play a ton of civ 3 but I haven't played it for a while so I might be a bit rusty. I am very busy but 30 turns is a small enough committment that I should be able to do a couple turns of the succession game!

Sure thing. Do you want to take this coming turn? PM me an email address so I can send you the save.
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