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Author Topic: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!  (Read 16998 times)

Kot

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #120 on: August 13, 2015, 01:00:08 pm »

Coulda sworn there was a carbine rifle that fired a smaller round used in the pacific theater later during World War Two.
M1.
There was M1 Garand, the rifle and M1 Carbine, the carbine. It was also used in Europe.
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SirQuiamus

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #121 on: August 13, 2015, 01:10:03 pm »

The reason Japan's cities were firebombed (instead of the precision-for-the-era raids the US tried so hard to pull off in Europe) was because every Japanese home contained some sort of machine tool, and such decentralized production made up the majority of the Japanese industry.

what

Every single residence in Tokyo was a factory. Japan couldn't industrialize fast enough to get where the ruling regime wanted, so they decentralized their production enormously. The only way to dent the production of a Japanese city was to destroy the city - note that the USAAF tried to use the same "precision" attacks in the early stages of the attacks on Japan, and only switched to firebombing because those attacks did absolutely nothing. The target was production, and production alone.

WHAAAA-AAA-AAAT?

...

This is the most bewildering claim I have read since forever, [citation needed] mang.
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Strife26

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #122 on: August 13, 2015, 02:10:17 pm »

Coulda sworn there was a carbine rifle that fired a smaller round used in the pacific theater later during World War Two.
M1.
There was M1 Garand, the rifle and M1 Carbine, the carbine. It was also used in Europe.


As part of the wonkiness with American military nomenclature, the m1 carbine and m1 garand are not very closely related (nor is either very related with anything in the m1 family of tanks). The parts commonality is limited to one screw for the buttplate and while both 30 caliber weapons, they actually use different rounds.

The carbine was also a good weapon, while not capable as a rifle, it was very small and handy, particularly the later improvements of select fire and a ir night scope.
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Kot

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #123 on: August 13, 2015, 02:42:54 pm »

(nor is either very related with anything in the m1 family of tanks).
Or M1 Scout Car, M1 howitzers, M1 8 and 4,5 inch heavy guns, M1 mortar, M1 bayonet, M1 aircraft guns, M1 motorcycle, three different M1 artillery tractors, M1 crane, various M1 trucks and trailers, M1 anti-tank guns, M1 flamethrower, M1 Bazooka, M1 helmet, M1 whatever. Welcome to designation hell of US Armed Forces. Apparently they couldn't decide what was supposed to be most important and hold the first number, eh.
The carbine was also a good weapon, while not capable as a rifle, it was very small and handy, particularly the later improvements of select fire and a ir night scope.
IIRC, it was actually more liked than the Garand, for being light and pretty capable of killing Germans, even if lacking in stopping power (Soldiers reported that Germans and Japanese alike had tendency to keep going despite being shoot, multiple times) and there was actually more of it at the end of war IIRC.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 02:44:28 pm by Kot »
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #124 on: August 13, 2015, 02:47:47 pm »

IIRC, it was actually more liked than the Garand, for being light and pretty capable of killing Germans, even if lacking in stopping power (Soldiers reported that Germans and Japanese had tendency to keep going despite being shoot, multiple times) and there was actually more of it at the end of war IIRC.

It was very popular among the second-line troops (people who weren't there to pick up a gun and shoot at the enemy but might come under personal attack and thus needed some kind of weapon, such as the logistics branch, vehicle crewmen, etc.) that it was intended for - the purpose was to replace the pistol with a more effective defensive weapon that was still less encumbering than a full-sized rifle like the Garand. Front line troops didn't like it very much, preferring either the Garand or the Browning Automatic Rifle.
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Kot

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #125 on: August 13, 2015, 03:03:13 pm »

It was very popular among the second-line troops (people who weren't there to pick up a gun and shoot at the enemy but might come under personal attack and thus needed some kind of weapon, such as the logistics branch, vehicle crewmen, etc.) that it was intended for - the purpose was to replace the pistol with a more effective defensive weapon that was still less encumbering than a full-sized rifle like the Garand. Front line troops didn't like it very much, preferring either the Garand or the Browning Automatic Rifle.
Funilly enough, some time ago I argued over the exact same thing, saying to my friend that Garand was more popular than Carbine but in the end he threw some sources at me that said otherwise. Sadly, it was on Steam (and there's no archive on Steam) and I can't be exactly arsed to look for it. But IIRC, by the end of war around 40% of American Soldiers were equipped with it (though this may be because the second-line troops were 40% or rather because the end of war was Pacific, and Carbines were more popular there than in Europe).
But really, if you have sources saying otherwise, it won't be hard to convice me, since it's what I initially thought.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #126 on: August 13, 2015, 03:14:16 pm »

It was very popular among the second-line troops (people who weren't there to pick up a gun and shoot at the enemy but might come under personal attack and thus needed some kind of weapon, such as the logistics branch, vehicle crewmen, etc.) that it was intended for - the purpose was to replace the pistol with a more effective defensive weapon that was still less encumbering than a full-sized rifle like the Garand. Front line troops didn't like it very much, preferring either the Garand or the Browning Automatic Rifle.
Funilly enough, some time ago I argued over the exact same thing, saying to my friend that Garand was more popular than Carbine but in the end he threw some sources at me that said otherwise. Sadly, it was on Steam (and there's no archive on Steam) and I can't be exactly arsed to look for it. But IIRC, by the end of war around 40% of American Soldiers were equipped with it (though this may be because the second-line troops were 40% or rather because the end of war was Pacific, and Carbines were more popular there than in Europe).
But really, if you have sources saying otherwise, it won't be hard to convice me, since it's what I initially thought.

Most tellingly, Colonel Benjamin H. Vandervoort of the 505th Infantry Regiment confiscated every M1 carbine in his company (Paratroopers were issued the weapon in an attempt to make their load lighter) and traded them in off-the-books transactions (similar to how the Marines on Guadacanal got their Garands) for Garands as soon as his men linked up with the main invasion force because fire from the carbines had absolutely no suppression effect on the Germans and it wasn't very good at putting them down in the first place.

Pretty much the only troops that liked the weapon were those that rarely encountered the enemy and thus like the fact that it didn't weight them down very much while still having enough firepower to drive off a light attack if need be - exactly what the weapon was for. Indeed, if 40% of the US soldiers carried it, that is a mark against it, as second-line troops made up more than 60% of the armed forces.
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mainiac

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #127 on: August 13, 2015, 03:23:22 pm »

My grandfather had an M1 carbine.  Never fired it once in combat but that's not terribly surprising as he was a surgeon at the divisional level.

I'm like 90% sure that the Garand was the weapon given to frontline infantry in Europe nearly all the time (excepting squad support or snipers).  I believe that things were a little more mixed in the pacific.  I read somewhere once that only about 800,000 troops at peak were frontline infantry in frontline divisions.  I'm only talking GIs in infantry squads here so no one in the artillery (even direct fire artillery which would come under small arms fire and especially tank fire) or tank crews or navy or airforce.  I have no clue if paratroopers would be in that number but they would affect the total a huge amount.  So if non frontline troops were all given pointy sticks, pointy sticks would be the most common weapon.

How did the Kar98 compare to the Lee-enfield and Mosin-Negant?

All of them were as good as a bolt action could be which is why there were no real changes for decades (unless you count the Garand).  The Germans did have the best light squad machine gun of the war, although I forget the name right now.  They were also had a tacticali doctrine that made good use of it.  I think that this doctrine became even better as the war progressed because loss of well trained troops lead to smaller "hollow" German squads with fewer riflemen but more automatic weapon troops.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 03:25:06 pm by mainiac »
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Kot

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #128 on: August 13, 2015, 03:41:02 pm »

The Germans did have the best light squad machine gun of the war, although I forget the name right now.
MG34, which was good (proably best at the time), and MG42 which is so fucking good that Germany continues to use it even today (under the name of MG3 with minor modifications, to the point that you can use most parts of MG42 in MG3). IIRC, there's a joke that some of MG3s they use still have Reichsadler on some parts.
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Mechatronic

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #129 on: August 13, 2015, 04:54:37 pm »

Folks in my family mostly killed people in WW2 with a bayonet, from what I've been told. They'd just assault a position and kill everyone there.
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mainiac

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #130 on: August 13, 2015, 05:41:51 pm »

I think someone was pulling your leg there.
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #131 on: August 13, 2015, 05:48:57 pm »

Folks in my family mostly killed people in WW2 with a bayonet, from what I've been told. They'd just assault a position and kill everyone there.
-What is this thing, son of my son?
-It's called Halo 65, gramps! You've got these lazor guns and you must kill those aliens. (on a side: Unless they're fuckable, I guess).
-Kids these days. When I was your age, all we had was a bayonet. We'd just wake up, brush our teeth, and assault a position and kill everyone there. We also had to go through a minefield both ways, in mud, uphill all the time.
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ChairmanPoo

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #132 on: August 13, 2015, 05:59:45 pm »

You know as well as I do that if the aliens ever invade we'll be all equipped with effing crowbars
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mainiac

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #133 on: August 13, 2015, 06:01:32 pm »

I'd just jump on them.
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Jopax

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Re: Defend ze glory of ze German Wunderwaffen!
« Reply #134 on: August 13, 2015, 06:33:58 pm »

Wasn't there a story of some Gurkha guy in WW2 who assaulted a bunker with his kukri and some grenades or something and just killed everyone. Mostly because he was out of ammo or something.

Edit: Here it is, he even had ammo, he just didn't feel like using it most of the time:
Quote
    On 5 March 1945 at Snowdon-East, near Tamandu, Burma (now Myanmar), Gurung and his unit were approaching Snowdon-East. His company became pinned down by an enemy sniper and were suffering casualties. As the sniper was inflicting casualties on the section, Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung, being unable to fire from the lying position, stood up fully exposed to the heavy fire and calmly killed the enemy sniper with his rifle, thus saving his section from suffering further casualties.[3]

    The section advanced again but came under heavy fire once again. Without waiting for orders, Gurung dashed out to attack the first enemy fox-hole. Throwing two grenades, he killed the two occupants and without any hesitation rushed on to the next enemy fox-hole and killed the Japanese in it with his bayonet. He cleared two further fox-holes with bayonet and grenades. "During his single-handed attacks on these four enemy fox-holes, Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung was subjected to almost continuous and point-blank Light Machine Gun fire from a bunker on the North tip of the objective." For the fifth time, Gurung "went forward alone in the face of heavy enemy fire to knock out this position. He doubled forward and leapt on to the roof of the bunker from where, his hand grenades being finished, he flung two No. 77 smoke grenades into the bunker slit." [3] Gurung killed two Japanese soldiers who ran out of the bunker with his Kukri, and then advanced into the cramped bunker and killed the remaining Japanese soldier.

    Gurung ordered three others to take up positions in the bunker. "The enemy counter-attack followed soon after, but under Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung's command the small party inside the bunker repelled it with heavy loss to the enemy. Rifleman Bhanbhagta Gurung showed outstanding bravery and a complete disregard for his own safety. His courageous clearing of five enemy positions single-handed was in itself decisive in capturing the objective and his inspiring example to the rest of the Company contributed to the speedy consolidation of this success."
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 06:36:34 pm by Jopax »
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