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Author Topic: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - This Exhibit is Closed - GAME OVER SCUM VICTORY!  (Read 47318 times)

Tawa

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The scum team presumably. Why would a scum team block AND redirect the same person?
I'm not sure why. Why would they block Jack, if he was going after you? Perhaps you have an auto that redirects, and they blocked him just to be safe?
Curious. I can't see a scum motivation for killing you particularly.
I can!
Right now a Tiruin lynch would be fine.
I know that you later mentioned that you remembered that she had inconsistent internet access and that it might've been a bad idea... but you're literally the only person who ever suggested killing her, or really had any interest in her activities beyond chalking it up to bad internet.
Yeah, you figured right that I had no vote on D1 at all as a balancing aspect to my role. I didn't mention it because it was so obvious to anyone paying attention and I wanted to see if anyone was paying attention. Unfortunately no one was.
Just out of curiosity: why'd you vote?

Ninja post response:
Tiruin: Actively ignores claims until later in the game
TDS: Asks everyone else about claims but doesn't engage with them or me directly. Still voting me at the end of the day
Teneb: Joking dismissal of the ploy.
Jack: Engages with the claims with his own claims
Flabort: Skeptical, accusation of fishing
Deus: Showed an attempt to work out the truth/falsity of the claims
Tawa: Very skeptical of claims
Fallacy: Questions claims intensely
This is really, really freaking weird.
Why are the players who are the most skeptical of you the least scummy-seeming to you? Freudian slip, perhaps?
Why is somebody you voted for earlier today in third place?
Only scum were voting for me at the end of the day.
[...]
So scummy reactions: not questioning the claims, taking it as an easy vote, ignoring it entirely.
[...]
I'm pegging the scum team as Tiruin-TDS-Teneb.
What's going on here? They practically ignored you! Their behavior is inconsistent with what you're claiming they should've acted like!

Also, something suspicious I noticed with your scum list: There's a very clear contradiction between Jack's claim and your claim. Jack says somebody blocked him. You redirected him. If you're town, why would somebody block Jack? Yet, you have not addressed this once and just put him midway down the list, above your supposed "scum team".
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notquitethere

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Tawa

I'm not sure why. Why would they block Jack, if he was going after you? Perhaps you have an auto that redirects, and they blocked him just to be safe?

Also, something suspicious I noticed with your scum list: There's a very clear contradiction between Jack's claim and your claim. Jack says somebody blocked him. You redirected him. If you're town, why would somebody block Jack? Yet, you have not addressed this once and just put him midway down the list, above your supposed "scum team".
My theories: either Jack is actually scum with a nightkill (I don't think this is true for reasons I explained before) OR they were worried about Jack's activities making both him and me look town through a successful investigation.

I can!
Right now a Tiruin lynch would be fine.
I know that you later mentioned that you remembered that she had inconsistent internet access and that it might've been a bad idea... but you're literally the only person who ever suggested killing her, or really had any interest in her activities beyond chalking it up to bad internet.
This isn't a scum motivation for killing Tiruin though. I suggested her as a reasonable D1 option as she'd not contributed on that day and that's a prima facie reason to lynch someone. It's not at all a reason for scum to night kill someone.

Just out of curiosity: why'd you vote?
As no one had noticed my name wasn't in the vote count hitherto, I wanted to see if anyone would notice when I actually voted. Also, at the time I wanted 4mask lynched and voting someone is a good way to make the intention clear.

This is really, really freaking weird.
It's really, really not. You just didn't pay attention to my reasoning.

Why are the players who are the most skeptical of you the least scummy-seeming to you? Freudian slip, perhaps?
I thought this was very clear but apparently not. Being skeptical and trying to discern the truth about the claims is a town response, as shown by my examination of the last game where I pulled a similar stunt. In contrast, just accepting the claim without pushing it is a relatively scummy response. The thing you need to learn about mafia is that most of the time town suspect town and being heavily suspected by someone is not in itself a reason to think that they're scum.

 
Why is somebody you voted for earlier today in third place?
Again, I don't think you read what I was saying particularly closely. It was clearly a list of different player's reaction to my claims. This is obviously independent of any votes I made earlier today (which, in any case, happened before I did this analysis).


Only scum were voting for me at the end of the day.
[...]
So scummy reactions: not questioning the claims, taking it as an easy vote, ignoring it entirely.
[...]
I'm pegging the scum team as Tiruin-TDS-Teneb.
What's going on here? They practically ignored you! Their behavior is inconsistent with what you're claiming they should've acted like!
No it's not. I list ignoring the claim as a scummy response and that what Teneb and Tiruin did. TDS was voting for me at the end of day, taking it as an easy vote. In what way were they acting inconsistent with the theory?
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Tawa

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Alright, never mind the bit about your scum list.
This isn't a scum motivation for killing Tiruin though. I suggested her as a reasonable D1 option as she'd not contributed on that day and that's a prima facie reason to lynch someone. It's not at all a reason for scum to night kill someone.
Nice retcon there.

In any case, I'm done debating with you for now, NQT. You're not changing my mind without concrete proof that you're town. I'm going to back off a bit and see what other people can come up with.
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zombie urist

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 2 - Goblin Christmas
« Reply #303 on: August 23, 2015, 02:50:10 pm »

Votecount:
Tiruin -
Teneb -
TheDarkStar - notquitethere
Deus Asmoth -
FallacyofUrist -
Jack AT -
Tawarochir - Jack AT
Flabort -
notquitethere - Tawarochir, FallacyofUrist, Tiruin

Not voting:Teneb, Deus Asmoth, Flabort

Teneb is up for replacement
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 03:02:20 pm by zombie urist »
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The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.

Tawa

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Tiruin isn't voting and not voting at the same time.
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zombie urist

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Fixed
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The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.

flabort

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Seems like someone TRIED TO KEEL MY FACE. Also I can't vote because of that. o_o [Basically I am protected from any-kill-at-all, and then I lose my vote the following day. This also encompasses day kills or stuffs under the term of 'KILL {TIRUIN}']

...

NQT,
Fixed
OK, Tiruin, I thought you said you couldn't vote. How come your vote is displayed?
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The Cyan Menace

Went away for a while, came back, went away for a while, and back for now.

Jack A T

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Tired, I've been dealing with moving from on-campus residence to home again, and I'm dealing with a slow laptop instead of my desktop.  Going to split my Mafia work into parts today.  I'll start by trying to push people away from poor efforts to create wider theories of Mafia, and later today, I'll get to more conventional contribution.

NQT: Your comments about play (particularly my play) in BYOR 14 are irritating me, and your Grand Theory of Reactions to 'Jestery' Play is terrible.  You imply quite strongly that my reaction to your failure at jestering, my view of it as making you townier, was tied to my scumminess.  I can understand how, when looking through the lens of a theory crafter, you would make that assumption, but it's wrong.  My view would have been much the same had I been town (in fact, a stronger in-thread view of you as town, instead of the middling nothingness I publicly displayed): you weren't scummy (I have never seen a single player as incapable of looking like scum to me while 'acting in a jester-like way' as you.  Anywhere.  Ever.).  Also, you weren't pretending to be a jester, as you were, in fact, a quasi-jester.

More importantly, you ignore much BYOR 14 townie behaviour to be able to give a town approach.  You omit Tiruin's general agreement with me and lack of probing questions to you.  You omit Cheeetar's in-thread behaviour that was basically quite like my in-thread behaviour but with less questions.  You omit Shakerag's choice to just go along with your suggestion instead of asking probing questions.  You even completely misrepresent Persus's frustration, view of you as behaving like you, and lack of questions to you as skepticism and questioning.

Even ignoring the fact that your theory is built on only one game, your theory of reactions to your D1 stuff, to have the town and scum reactions be consistent as required, requires that most players' town and scum reactions are unchanged by the experience of having dealt with your BYOR 14 play.  Of course, people threw BYOR 14 around a lot D1, including you, and openly accounted for it (and that's just the tip of the iceberg).

Theorize better.

Fallacy: Your theory of suspicions is silly.  While you have a point when it comes to the most extreme cases of mass suspicion at some times (though even then only sometimes), the other end is much, much weaker.  I'm usually almost completely unsuspected, whether town or scum.  A lot of people, at most times, are unsuspected or barely suspected townies.  Nothing consistent enough to build a major tell on.

(About boatcount: Tiruin sometimes says that, like in Cult Mafia 2 at one point).
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Quote from: Pandarsenic, BYOR 6.3 deadchat
FUCK YOU JACK
Quote from: Urist Imiknorris, Witches' Coven 2 Elfchat
YOU TRAITOROUS SWINE.
Screw you, Jack.

Deus Asmoth

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Tawa
In any case, I'm done debating with you for now, NQT. You're not changing my mind without concrete proof that you're town. I'm going to back off a bit and see what other people can come up with.
This is some lazy voting. Some really, really lazy voting. You can't come up with any reason for wanting NQT lynched, so you want other people to do the legwork for you?
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Tawa

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Tawa
In any case, I'm done debating with you for now, NQT. You're not changing my mind without concrete proof that you're town. I'm going to back off a bit and see what other people can come up with.
This is some lazy voting. Some really, really lazy voting. You can't come up with any reason for wanting NQT lynched, so you want other people to do the legwork for you?
I've made my case, and there's still a lot of grey area. I want to see what other people think of it while I mull the facts over. Is that so wrong?

And is that really grounds for a vote?
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Tawa

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You know what, I'm sorry to doublepost, but I just needed to comment that your entire vote being based on me backing off is lazy voting in and of itself, Deus. Are you just looking for an excuse to vote?
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zombie urist

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 2 - Goblin Christmas
« Reply #311 on: August 23, 2015, 04:55:07 pm »

Teneb is replacing himself.
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The worst part of all of this is that Shakerag won.

FallacyofUrist

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Fallacy: Your theory of suspicions is silly.  While you have a point when it comes to the most extreme cases of mass suspicion at some times (though even then only sometimes), the other end is much, much weaker.  I'm usually almost completely unsuspected, whether town or scum.  A lot of people, at most times, are unsuspected or barely suspected townies.  Nothing consistent enough to build a major tell on.
Hm. There's a point to that. Using that theory on its own is an absurd idea. That said, I still believe it has some merit.

Teneb is replacing himself.
Um... what?

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A Thousand Treasures (And You).

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Deus Asmoth

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Tawa
In any case, I'm done debating with you for now, NQT. You're not changing my mind without concrete proof that you're town. I'm going to back off a bit and see what other people can come up with.
This is some lazy voting. Some really, really lazy voting. You can't come up with any reason for wanting NQT lynched, so you want other people to do the legwork for you?
I've made my case, and there's still a lot of grey area. I want to see what other people think of it while I mull the facts over. Is that so wrong?

And is that really grounds for a vote?
Yes. It is. Either you have a case on NQT that you can support yourself, or you don't have one and you're hoping that you can get a lynch through on him anyway by piggybacking on other peoples' arguments. As it is, you've justified your vote based off the redirection of Jack last night and not much else besides (possibly deliberately, I'm not sure) misinterpreting several points of NQT's analysis of his gambit.
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Tawa

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 2 - Goblin Christmas
« Reply #314 on: August 23, 2015, 05:50:01 pm »

I am supporting my case. I've just run through all the points I can think of. You don't even have a case.
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