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[4maskwolf]

Jesus Christ you all I'm being attacked because I was dragged into helping a friend move.  I was planning on posting quite a bit before the day ended, then couldn't, and so you all join in a "4mask is evil because pressure vote" bandwagon.

Christ.

4mask, you voted for Fallacy earlier based off him focussing on NQT's first post, but now you're voting for NQT based off of NQT's first post. Is NQT's gambit worthy of suspicion or not?

It's not because of the gambit, it's because he tried to lie about his kill and then makes another claim to try to excuse the lack of a kill.

[Tawa]

...Fine. Unvote. Mark my words, NQT, if Jack comes up with a single suspicious thing I'm hammering you.

4mask, why didn't you interject at all after NQT pulled the fake day-kill?

[4maskwolf]

4mask, why didn't you interject at all after NQT pulled the fake day-kill?

Interject?

[Tawa]

After NQT pulled that crap and we confirmed you were still alive it was all a dialogue between him and I. You said nothing.

[4maskwolf]

After NQT pulled that crap and we confirmed you were still alive it was all a dialogue between him and I. You said nothing.

It was midnight my time.  I was asleep.

[zombie urist]

Votecount:
Tiruin -
Teneb -
TheDarkStar - Flabort
Deus Asmoth -
FallacyofUrist -
Persus13 -
Jack AT -
Tawarochir - Teneb
4maskwolf - FallacyofUrist, Deus Asmoth, Jack AT
flabort -
notquitethere - TheDarkStar, 4maskwolf

Not voting: Tiruin, Persus13, Tawarochir

0 to extend, 4 needed
0 to shorten, 6 needed

1/2 extends used so far

Day ends in ~11 hours

[Tawa]

After NQT pulled that crap and we confirmed you were still alive it was all a dialogue between him and I. You said nothing.

It was midnight my time.  I was asleep.

I see.

[flabort]

What do people think of 4mask's response to the daykill?

A little emotional but overall level headed; I'm flattered by his opinion of me, I'm confused about what he said about you always lying (The absolute term would create a paradox, it would have made more sense to say almost always lying), and he brings up a good point about Jack.

He's still alive at this moment, and ZU has posted another vote-count, so I can only assume if (most of) your claims are correct the daykill has either been processed or you forgot to send a PM when posting the activation term. 4mask's willingness to call your bluff until proven true is a little stubborn, but it's logical.

I'm more concerned with Tawarochir's reaction to your daykill, after this question. It's a chainsaw defense clouded by emotion.

Your own responses to these responses do trigger a couple red flags, bringing up new claims and referring to old ones. But since you don't believe Taw and 4mask are on a team together, I'm going to have to discard the chainsaw defense theory now.

(( 0) The focus on NQT))
1) Threatening people to do your bidding and agree with you.
2) Instead of coming up with ideas on your own you appeal to authority.
3) Not having any suspects (once you stopped focusing on NQT), viewing everyone as town. Being wishy-washy about hunting anyone else.

Even though you're "dropping your case" against me, I'm going to go ahead and and answer these concerns.

1. Threatening you say? My words were-something like this: "if you want NQT to not be lynched you had better give good reasoning or you will be suspicious to me". I think. So let's give an example. Urist McMafioso says "no, I don't want to lynch NQT because he's obviously town". Would that not earn your suspicion? If someone gives a reason, say: "no, I don't want to lynch NQT because his WIFOM bomb sparked a lot of conversation", that's justifiable.

2. Appeal to authority. Game two, man. I don't have enough experience to generate dense, filled-out cases on my own- though I have to say I'm trying, and learning. Besides, examining what others say provides me with good clues/thoughts/words to build my own arsenal for when I go on the attack.

3. No suspects. No obvious ones, anyway. Well, all things considered, 4maskwolf's pressure vote on me near the end of the day does seem rather scummy. Honestly, it's like he was trying to bring down a hammer on me at the end of the day without anyone else noticing, a hammer narrowly averted by NQT and an extension. It seems blasted obvious. 4maskwolf, plenty of reasoning has been brought against you. Reasoning I agree with wholeheartedly. (Of course, you may die anyway even without my vote, but if NQT's day kill is fake I still want you lynched for what you attempted to do to me. I don't suppose you have a response?

OK, this is reasonable enough for me.

[Deus Asmoth]

4mask, you voted for Fallacy earlier based off him focussing on NQT's first post, but now you're voting for NQT based off of NQT's first post. Is NQT's gambit worthy of suspicion or not?

It's not because of the gambit, it's because he tried to lie about his kill and then makes another claim to try to excuse the lack of a kill.

I may be confused here, but wasn't (probably) lying about having that kill part of the gambit? Did you think it was suspicious when NQT didn't use the kill on FoU when he voted for him?

[TheDarkStar]

NQT:

My thinking is that this is actually a strong scum play: if a scum player is going to be lynched, it's in their interest to be day killed instead so there can still be a mislynch that day.

However, it also makes sense from a town perspective as that way the day isn't wasted.

I guess another way of putting it is: the votes were tied near the end of the day and 4mask breaks it in favour of Fallacy. The possibilities are:

1. 4mask is scum and Fallacy isn't
2. Scum were very confident of someone else breaking the tie in favour of a mislynch and so Teneb/4mask/NQT/Fallacy are all not-mafia
3. Scum are completely incompetent or absent, and so the team is something like Fallacy/Tiruin/Lidku

Right now a Tiruin lynch would be fine.

...uh what. You're saying that scumhunting is scummy and that a scum 4mask would vote for you to kill himself when you're the one who decides who gets killed.

Also, why did you suddenly decide that lynching a less active person was a good idea? It's unrelated to the rest of the post and it makes me think that you don't care who gets lynched.

The trouble with gambits, tricks and partial claims is that although there can be a high payoff, it paints a big target on your back. Scum usually win by letting town bicker among themselves and being just active enough not to raise alarm bells.

I've learned a lot from these experiments and depending on what people do tonight, I'll probably learn a lot more. Scum hunting requires getting  a reaction out of people. Mafia players can give by-the-numbers responses for most things so it helps to take them out of their comfort zone.

If you were paying more attention, you'd notice I've been doing other things today like trying to avoid the traditional sleepwalk into a D1 mislynch.

I've explained how I'm pro-town (if unconventional) but you still haven't answered in what way my actions would help a scum wincon. Sowing confusion and drawing suspicion isn't a wincon.

Jack has said he's testing at least some of my claims tonight. This probably means night killing me. Regardless of your alignment and what you really think, I'm not a productive target.

What do you think about the three end-of-day scenarios I just outlined? If 4mask's alignment is uncertain at this point then Tiruin, having posted but not voted or done much of anything would make a reasonable lynch choice.

How are you avoiding a D1 mislynch? How does causing massive WIFOM and confusion reduce your chances of getting lynched? Why do you think confusion and causing suspicion aren't scum-related when a confused town generally loses to the informed scumteam?

I'm going to say that you are a productive target because I don't know what your night powers are. You might be immune to inspections; you might be an Angry Veteran-type role. Also, why are you so fixated on getting Tiruin lynched? Lynching her would tell us nothing because she has low content; lynching someone with more activity lets us analyze their interactions and their voters.


I'm still reading through things; I thought Day 1 had already ended until I looked at the thread today.

[FallacyofUrist]

Yes! And he has arrived! Yes!

For your benefit I'm going to state that the main reason that we aren't swarming NQT is the test Jack's promised to do to him for this night.

[Persus13]

Haven't had a chance to do a reread, but it appears day will end in a 4maskwolf lynch. The only other target for a lynch is NQT and I'd like to see him survive to allow Jack to do whatever he's trying to do to verify NQT's role, as well as the fact that NQT has appeared to consistently been active, thoughtful, and hunting despite the claim shenanigans at day start. So I'm going to vote 4maskwolf to prevent someone trying to tie the vote.

[FallacyofUrist]

Good logic. Let's hope we hit scum today.
Hopefully 4maskwolf will respond properly to all this. For the moment though, I believe he is the best lynch(for today at least).

[4maskwolf]

Very well.

I have a few final thoughts to share with you all.

Point the first: I believe it to be likely that some anti-town roles have the ability to roleblock.

Point the second: Ignore NQT's gambit for now if at all possible, it'll reduce the headache.

Point the third: Take careful note of who voted me today and why.

If I think of anything else or see anything else before the lynch deadline, I'll comment on it.

Good logic. Let's hope we hit scum today.
Hopefully 4maskwolf will respond properly to all this. For the moment though, I believe he is the best lynch(for today at least).

What, precisely, do you wish me to respond to?

[FallacyofUrist]

Seriously? You're just giving up? I don't suppose you're going to revive... well we'll see.

Good logic. Let's hope we hit scum today.
Hopefully 4maskwolf will respond properly to all this. For the moment though, I believe he is the best lynch(for today at least).

What, precisely, do you wish me to respond to?

The accusations mounted against you. And point one that kicked you into "scummy" zone:

Why did you place a pressure vote for me at the end of the day?, where it could have very easily have kicked me off into the lynch under everyone's radar? That's the catalyst issue.