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[4maskwolf]

Graagh... this thread is 90 percent WIFOM. Probably more.

... graagh.

Can't we just get on with the scum hunting? Instead of- I don't know, WIFOM dancing?

FallacyofUrist:  Who do you think would be the most beneficial lynch for the town today, just going off of current posts?  Do you believe that any information can be gleaned from the claims people are making, or would you rather just ignore them until it became relevant later.

[FallacyofUrist]

The most beneficial lynch... NQT is the obvious choice. There are going to be other foes(most likely), and at the moment I don't have enough evidence to determine who those other foes are. All things considered, everyone who jumped on the WIFOM bandwagon is suspicious to me. Why, really, would any town or town-aligned player want to cause confusion in their ranks?

Claims information... any information that could possibly be gained is inevitably going to be cloaked in WIFOM. There is most likely some useful information there, but fishing it out of the lies and junk would be a herculean task.

4maskwolf, why did you jump aboard the WIFOM bandwagon?

Claim Five: I am telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

This, in particular gets on my nerves.

On the plus side, your claim seems pretty easy for a truth-teller to go through, if there is one.

[4maskwolf]

Why, really, would any town or town-aligned player want to cause confusion in their ranks?

Ah, see, the question is: is this going to cause more problems for the scum, or the town.  If it's going to cause more problems for the town, one probably shouldn't do it.  That's why I admitted that all the things I said in my claims list were for my personal funnies (I intentionally made them difficult to believe to begin with, so that hopefully people would pick up that they were jokes).

[FallacyofUrist]

... you were joking?

and the answer is: All these fake-claims are probably causing more problems for the town. There are more town players than scum players, thus any post-based tactic designed to confuse scum may cause more confusion to the town instead. There are probably tactics that confuse scum much more than town, but I don't think this is one of them.

[Teneb]

Due to issues, I may not be able to post until tomorrow. Hopefuly, it won't come to that.

[flabort]

Every single claim in that last post was bullshit, I was doing it for my own personal funnies.

flabort: What did you expect to get out of your question to me?

Not much, but I figured it would be a good way to gauge a reaction to a veiled message.

*facepalm*
You know what? If one more person makes a day 1 claim, I'm laying out over a dozen claims in response.

-snip-

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Claim 1 I am a JOAT and have over 3 1-shot abilities

Claim 2 I cannot be night-killed unless I am also roleblocked

Claim 3 I gain power from roleflips

Claim 4 I have a PGO ability

Claim 5 I have a not-always-sane investigative ability

Claim 6 I submitted a picture of a reference to a creepy-pasta

Claim 7 I submitted a picture of Chell

Claim 8 I submitted a picture of Knuckles the Echidna

Claim 9 I put my submitted picture through the Deep Dream code before submitting it

Claim 10 I know who visits me in the night

Claim 11 One of my abilities includes a public announcement

Claim 12 I have a post restriction that I have been following

Claim 13 This is the 13th claim I made

Claim 14 I don't react well when exposed to water

Claim 15 The claims below this one are all true

Claim 16 6 and a half of the claims above this one are true

Claim 17 My question to 4mask has to do with my post restriction

Claim 18 Shutting down.

Claim 19 I have that truth-teller ability that was spoken of, but I can't use it on a post until the next day

See? Told you I would do it. And you can plainly see that nothing here is of any use right now.

... you were joking?

and the answer is: All these fake-claims are probably causing more problems for the town. There are more town players than scum players, thus any post-based tactic designed to confuse scum may cause more confusion to the town instead. There are probably tactics that confuse scum much more than town, but I don't think this is one of them.

In the short term, I agree with you; the claims are a problem. In the long term, once someone who posted these fake-claims dies, we'll get a much clearer idea of that particular person's motivation. Possibly the motivations of the others who did it, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

And yes, even though we call mafia a serious game, sometimes we'll insert jokes into our posts. Usually to throw the other team(s) off their game while hopefully not disrupting our own team(s) as much. Which I guess is why there's so many fake-claims.

[FallacyofUrist]

I looked at your claims. You have slain my puny mind, good sir.

At this rate I might have to claim(of course it would be a pointless to read mostly fake).

Congratulations. You managed to make me laugh. Properly. That is not easily done.

[zombie urist]

Votecount:
Tiruin -
Teneb - Deus Asmoth
TheDarkStar -
Deus Asmoth -
FallacyofUrist - Teneb
Lidku -
Jack AT - flabort
Tawarochir -
4maskwolf -
flabort -
notquitethere - FallacyofUrist

Not voting: Tiruin, TheDarkStar, Lidku, Jack AT, Tawarochir, 4maskwolf

Day 1 will end 9 PM PST Monday 8/17/2015.
0 to extend, 0 to shorten

[notquitethere]

Fallacy

NQT's claim: It's kind of absurd. No one in their right mind would post that...

This was your first mistake.

Opinions on how people are acting: You are acting crazily, like some sort of antagonist, in my opinion. For everybody else, I don't really have reads beyond "exists".

Right! I'm an antagonist to the scum team. So I'm pretty sure you're town (remember I figured out you were town in the last game we played together; town hunting is as important as scum hunting in this game). You've seen some detective shows, right? There's always a scene where the brilliant but obnoxious detective riles someone up and you're thinking they're acting insanely but then it turns out there's a method in their madness? Well I'm like the bargain basement mafia version of that. Anyway, the question we should be asking ourselves is, who is using this spectacle to sneak into the background? Answers in my next post...

"Town players can use claims and fakeclaims in a WIFOMy way to trick scum"... this I would agree with, but you took that up to eleven. No, up to twelve. You've overdone it immensely, and it's going to be difficult for you to dig your way out of my suspicion.

I see where you're coming from here. So the standard theory for these hidden alignment games is that everyone should act as towny as possible and then we lynch the scum because they can't do that consistently and achieve their wincon. The trouble with fancy play and gambits is that it makes it harder for other town players to trust you.

By the way, would everyone mind saying "I am town", just in case there's a truthteller here?

I am town. Town is my alignment. I need to put down the threats to town, that is my wincon.

Gotcha. Why would a town player have this fear? Well, every townie dead is one fewer in the way of a scum or sk or, in general, antagonist victory. Although a townie death isn't as great a loss for the town as a mafioso death is for the scum, it's still a loss which no good town player wants. Not wanting to vote someone who could day-kill them as a result of the vote is natural for any player(I certainly don't want to die, but I consider pressuring you worth the risk of death).

Self-preservation is fine, but why would a player claiming to be town shoot without just cause or provocation? Even if I wasn't town, wouldn't that break my cover?

NQT, really, why shouldn't we lynch you, given the massive amount of WIFOM you've spread, at no obvious gain for the town?

#1 reason is, I'm not actually scum.



I realise quoting Vader might not be the best strategy to convince you I'm a good guy, but to misquote Wittgenstein:

A serious and good philosophical work mafia game could be written consisting entirely of jokes.

A better answer is: because there are better lynch candidates today.


Flabort

Is there a reason people don't usually claim day one, and admit to lying in their first post on day one? Would you count wine as something solid enough to chew on? Is there a reason townies don't usually use WIFOM as a weapon, or lie? Don't you think that some shadows have more substance than others later in the day?

There are lots of good reasons for a regular game. However, this is a BYOR-style game and there are a whole range of tactics we can use. I maintain that carefully leaked partial claims can be a powerful tactic for town.

As for judging my reaction:
A towny would fear being lynched because they know it's a mislynch. A towny would fear being killed at all because it would make the wincondition of someone else, typically the mafia, more fulfilled, which would in turn make the towny's wincondition harder to fulfill. It also makes a towny's wincon harder to fulfill if they can't participate in hunting the scum anymore. I'd like to avoid being lynched right away before I can do anything meaningful, and I'd like to avoid attracting a daykill for the same reason.

A willingness to give your life for the cause would be townier, but I understand where you're coming from here.

For now I'm just going to Finger of Suspicion NQT.

4mask

DUDE THAT'S MY JOB STOP STEALING MY JOB!

Bite me.

Claim One: I am a third-party.

Your claims were cute, but apparently false. Are you going to do some scum hunting today? Use your vote?

[notquitethere]

Brief Assessment of Everyone So Far

Town For Now

FallacyofUrist - Appear to be questioning people, pressing for activity, posting lots, outraged at audacity. Is town.

flabort - Lots of chunky posts. Verbalises reasonable suspicions. Is open about mistakes. Good fit for town.

Jack AT - Makes some fun claims testing NQT. I like it when players put themselves out there. Look forward to seeing what they do when they get back today.

Active

Deus Asmoth - Packs content into their posts. This isn't alignment indicative per se, though the reverse would have been.

Tawarochir - Second-most active player. Despite that, not an awful lot to their posts. Mostly just replies. Who do you see yourself voting, Tawa?

Absent

TheDarkStar - Asks one RVS question for everybody but has yet to follow up. What did you learn from the answers, TDS?

Lidku - Hasn't posted yet. Where are you?

Teneb - Makes some RVS questions and then admits to being busy (which they're probably not lying about). Stay tuned for more, I guess.

Shady

Tiruin - Post 1, says they'll check back in. Post 2, being helpful. Post 3, short reply justifying not talking about something. Post 4, reiterates not to over-analyse NQT's post. Answers an easy RVS question. Tiruin, could you name anyone that you suspect so far?

4maskwolf - Makes some joke claims. Asks Fallacy a question and then replies to them. That is all. I'm looking forward to seeing them interact with more people.

[Teneb]

unvote

Teneb If you had an effigy of me, what would you be doing with it?

I'd be wondering why I had an effigy of you in the first place.

Teneb, do you think that there's any point to dropping votes on people during the RQS/RVS? Does the vote actually add any pressure to the questionee?

There is as much point dropping a vote in RVS as to not doing so. Against most players it probably won't matter if do or don't vote them in your first post. FoU is new to this, however, and I wanted to see how they'd handle the pressure.

Everyone: What do you think about Jack's and NQT's claims?

I think that, for now, these claims serve only to start conversation. From D2 and onwards, if Jack is telling the truth about testing NQT's claim, these claims will be more relevant.

NQT: Since you made a claim, and responded somewhat favorably to Jack doing the same, how do you feel about even more people claiming (actual non-joke claims), or even a mass claim this early?

I just noticed how much Vader's helmet wobbles around in that scene.

I am town.

[Tawa]

Tawarochir - Second-most active player. Despite that, not an awful lot to their posts. Mostly just replies. Who do you see yourself voting, Tawa?

If nothing else happens, then you, probably. Because you have done absolutely nothing to help us, just made a bunch of bullshit claims about your own role.

[FallacyofUrist]

NQT is a pile of timey-wimey goop.

All of a sudden mafia-ally seems like his alignment.
Of course, one suspect lynched correctly isn't going to win us the game. Though my vote stays where it is, I'm going to try to find other potential scum.
... thoughts ...

Well, it's a bit hard to read people who haven't posted a lot of good, dense, content. NQT is an easy read. Everybody else... not so much.
Tawarochir, however, hasn't posted substantial scumhunting stuffs that I've seen. With that in mind, I'm going to ask him a few questions.

Tawarochir, here's three questions:
1. If you had 3 inspections(alignment), and 1 inspection(role), who would you use them on?
2. Do you think voting randomly early game helps the town(often, that is)?
3. How would you go about winning if you were a voodoo doctor role that had to collect effigies from other players to win?

~~~
Back to NQT:

Don't quote Vader. But on a more serious note, Who would you say to be a better lynch candidate today, and for what reasons?

~~~
Several players aren't as active here as the others. Let us hope they begin playing in earnest soon, lest we lynch an innocent as a result of their lurking.
~~~

[Tiruin]

Alright, caught up

...The whole 'lie detector post' thing is serious?

...K?

I am town (alignment). I am a living player (in this game). Despite those 2 statements being in the same paragraph line, those are two separate statements for any kind of mechanic or whatever.
[I actually didn't catch up that well and am re-reading everything]

Tiruin - Tiruin, could you name anyone that you suspect so far?

Everyone? :v

Basically at the start of the game, intrigue happened. You nudged me because you went off with an unorthodox push. That first post being a claimant post of fun. Jogging the memory. Jogging approaches. Invoking thought.

Next is Fallacy. Newbie. But his questions are direct. Intriguingly direct--something one can easily get from a first impression of a BYOP.

Spoiler: Fallacy, you has a question! (click to show/hide)

To Everyone:
Do you think a large number of shenanigans are going to happen in this game's nights?

What purpose does this serve? Does any answer help you?

Tawarochir next...who lacks starting queries to peoples. :O But is also a newbie.
Oh, and do note--the red in this post is part of the game (I just announced it beforehand) I can give a whole spiel on this if anyone wants but I'm tired to do it now.

Your [NQT] post was intriguing though. And by intriguing I mean subtle. "For the record though, I am town."? The wording attracts my eye because of how that kinda idea can orient itself.

Then Deathsword Teneb comes up! (I totally forgot why you changed your name but I do recall that you explained why ._.)
Nothing of any suspect because its normal play. A fraction of RVS questions in order to ascertain a controlled set. Stuff of norms.

Jack: What made you style your first post like NQT's? Is it the way he acted? Or was it of your own initiative [totally not affected by NQT]?

And then flabort...
Yeah you can see what happens if I list everyone down. But I'm listing everyone down -_-
Anyway, I feel secure in noting Flabort above the rest in towniness, but that's first impressions (more on due to the length and breadth [mmm, bread] and detail in his posts).

Spoiler: But really [just commentary in this spoiler (click to show/hide)

]

I know Tiruin's going to give novices a hard time, not because she means to, but because of mutual misunderstandings.

Ouch! XD
Mutual misunderstandings?

...That's important to know. Anything about it?

Stuff along the lines--next posts are D(eus)A(smoth) and T(he)D(ark)S(tar).

DA thinks a lot like a rogue AI shows detail, and mindfulness. Good start. Needs more data input. *cough* Though I do like how he responds to NQT's first post...Totally like a rogue AI seeking knowledge.

TDS seems to lean on NQT's claim stuffs. Seems like nobody asked something here though; TDS: Why did you pick NQT here?

But then you [NQT] make a post--replying to all others who remarked on your first post, in a direct way, but you don't mark me in there?
...I get the feeling that you're testing more specifically as the time draws on.

Someposts onwards and then Fallacy opens up with the notion of a Truthteller [who started all this 'I am town'? I feel like it was NQT. But then its continued here? Sup' with y'all dudes and the shenanigans. :I]
Fallacy: Where did your thoughts go that you'd make a statement such as paragraph #2; linked above? {Basically a lead-up from what I guess is semantics on the I am town stuff, but I want to hear from you}.

Then 4mask comes in. I think he's busy because of the responses and the only other thing being a NQT-firstpost expy. :V
Why did you do that 4mask? (Y'know, other than personal funnies. Because NQT did it first in-that-way?)

Cue many more posts and we arrive to the now.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tiruin -
Teneb -
TheDarkStar -
Deus Asmoth -
FallacyofUrist
Jack AT -
Tawarochir -
4maskwolf -
flabort -
notquitethere -

Lidku -

Only Lidku didn't post yet.

PPE: 2 replies!

[Tawa]

Tawarochir, here's three questions:
1. If you had 3 inspections(alignment), and 1 inspection(role), who would you use them on?
2. Do you think voting randomly early game helps the town(often, that is)?
3. How would you go about winning if you were a voodoo doctor role that had to collect effigies from other players to win?

1. I would use one each on NQT. Not sure who else I would use them on, since nobody else has seemed all too scummy to me yet.
2. No, not really. Everybody knows you don't really mean anything with your votes, so nobody really cares about getting voted on.
3. I have no idea. Why do you keep on pursuing this bizarre idea?

Your [NQT] post was intriguing though. And by intriguing I mean subtle. "For the record though, I am town."? The wording attracts my eye because of how that kinda idea can orient itself.

...wait, what? Who are you speaking to here? Why did you link a post tha has nothing to do with what you're talking about?