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Author Topic: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - This Exhibit is Closed - GAME OVER SCUM VICTORY!  (Read 48316 times)

FallacyofUrist

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2015, 03:52:56 pm »

Why?
The abilities that NQT claimed don't really fit well with a team. And they fit a single foe rather well. It seems intuitive to me.
Tawarochir, why didn't you read the next few sentences in my NQT attack paragraph? In which I gave my reasoning?
Of course, there isn't enough evidence for a thorough conviction on NQT at the moment... but the WIFOM he spreads is absurd for a townie, as I have said.

Effigy:... gragh. In game or in real life? Either way... I don't suppose you're some sort of voodoo doctor role that needs to collect effigies in order to win?
What would I do with an Effigy? I really have no clue.

NQT, you are still oozing suspicion. I've got my eyes on you.
Now then. I wait, and continue reading- posts and plays.
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Tawa

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2015, 04:10:46 pm »

Tawarochir, why didn't you read the next few sentences in my NQT attack paragraph? In which I gave my reasoning?
Sorry, missed that bit. That said... yeah, you have a point with your Wine In Front Of Me argument.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #77 on: August 13, 2015, 04:18:14 pm »

The issue being, that if NQT's telling the truth, anybody who votes for him can promptly be killed.
However, I think he's lying about that ability. Why? Because it's overpowered. A two-shot day kill with the restriction that it can only be used on someone voting for the user? That seems like it was specifically designed as a defense, as an excuse "don't vote me". I don't think ZU would have given something like that to a player. NQT very well could be lying about that ability to protect himself.
I'm calling your bluff, Serial Killer NQT. If it's more convenient for you, ZU, vote Notquitethere.

Waitaminute. WIFOM within WIFOM! What if NQT's actually a jester who's using this WIFOM to make it more likely that he would be lynched? This is worth thinking about, but for the moment I'm keeping my vote on NQT, because the serial killer hypothesis seems more likely. Or not. Bah, this is so confusing and WIFOMy!

Everybody: Is it normal to have to wade through this much WIFOM in order to scumhunt? (Or SK hunt, or Cult hunt, or whatnot.)
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flabort

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2015, 04:28:14 pm »


Effigy:... gragh. In game or in real life? Either way... I don't suppose you're some sort of voodoo doctor role that needs to collect effigies in order to win?
What would I do with an Effigy? I really have no clue.
Real life, I guess. I had meant RL, not in game. No, I'm not a voodoo doctor.
I don't know what you could do with an effigy. Burn it, stick pins in it, shove it's face into a pile of books, **** **** ******* it, flush it down the drain, wash it, dress it up for a tea party, etc. They're basically dolls that you don't feel bad about if you accidentally or purposefully destroy them. But if you had one of me, what would your choice be?

Everybody: Is it normal to have to wade through this much WIFOM in order to scumhunt? (Or SK hunt, or Cult hunt, or whatnot.)
Yes and no. On day one, absolutely not. On later days, much more.
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Tawa

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #79 on: August 13, 2015, 04:30:19 pm »

flabort: Why the wacky question, exactly?
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flabort

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #80 on: August 13, 2015, 04:32:30 pm »

No particular reason.
Mostly just to gauge how Falacy and Teneb feel about me, in and out of game, I guess.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #81 on: August 13, 2015, 04:45:13 pm »

All things considered, I don't have a meta opinion of flabort, or of most of the mafia players on this game.

RL effigy:... really, I still don't know. I don't have need for any decor, firewood, or any potential use for an effigy of you.
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Deus Asmoth

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #82 on: August 13, 2015, 06:29:46 pm »

flabort
RVS Questions
Tiruin Let's say you had an ability that could silence someone for the rest of the day and keep them from using day abilities. Who would you use it on, if you had to use it right now?

Teneb If you had an effigy of me, what would you be doing with it?

TheDarkStar Same question that I gave Tiruin.

Deus Asmoth Same questions that I gave Jack AT.

FalacyofUrist Same question that I gave Teneb.

Jack AT-ST What purpose do the questions to TDS, DA, and FoU have? Why would I ask them?
I'd like to register my objection to you using the past tense to refer to a question further down the post, first of all.

In any case, your question to TDS seems to be useful only in determining whether he has any starting bias in the game, since there's virtually nothing to work off at the moment other than NQT's bout of WIFOM. Your reasons for asking it could be many, since it depends both on  your alignment and how you're intending to play this game.

Your question to FoU is to determine whether anyone is trying to use voodoo you, I guess? Its purpose could be similar to the one to TDS' but to determine if there's any prejudice towards you specifically rather than in general.

Your question to me is designed to test whether I'm a rogue AI, since its self referential nature would trap me in an infinite loop if I were one. To be honest I don't see much point in it other than opening a dialogue, though.

Jack: It seems to be concentrating on one person at a time until I've decided whether I actually think they're scum or not. But in this game, I plan to multitask! So, I guess my approach to mafia would be looking at my previous games and get annoyed at being bad, then strive to improve (and fail).

NQT, Your second claim is clearly false since you weren't a jester in the last BYOR. Claim five must be true, since if it were false it would be true. Therefore, claims one, three and four are the only ones to concern ourselves with at the moment. With no further evidence, I'll have to double back later and look at them again, though two killing abilities seems oddly powerful for a role in either the town or the scumteam.

Teneb, do you think that there's any point to dropping votes on people during the RQS/RVS? Does the vote actually add any pressure to the questionee?

FoU, since this is a bring your own something game, I would expect the nights to be somewhat hectic.

4mask, do you think that the marks in the opening post are an indication of the number of scum or a red herring?

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TheDarkStar

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #83 on: August 13, 2015, 06:32:24 pm »

TheDarkStar Same question that I gave Tiruin.

NQT, in case he actually has two daykills.

Everyone: Summarize your approach to Mafia in one sentence.

Ask questions, check the posts of anyone who's on a bandwagon that gets a townie lynched, and find scum.

To Everyone:
Do you think a large number of shenanigans are going to happen in this game's nights?

Yes. Why do you ask?

Everyone: What do you think about Jack's and NQT's claims?
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notquitethere

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #84 on: August 13, 2015, 06:35:53 pm »

Deus
NQT, Your second claim is clearly false since you weren't a jester in the last BYOR.
This is a reading comprehension failure on your behalf, Deus. Last BYOR I submitted 'The Fool' because I wanted to be a jester, and my claim is, just like then I have a jester-themed town role.

Claim five must be true, since if it were false it would be true. Therefore, claims one, three and four are the only ones to concern ourselves with at the moment. With no further evidence, I'll have to double back later and look at them again, though two killing abilities seems oddly powerful for a role in either the town or the scumteam.
I look forward to seeing your future assessment.



Flabort
Why the fishing so early? I call your claiming fishing because I almost told you about my role in response to some of those claims.
Wow. I think that's maybe more of an indication of your readiness to spill the beans that my propensity to solicit bean spillage. D1, no one has information and we're just jumping at shadows. I thought I'd give people something to chew on.

Like falacy pointed out and you admitted, this is certainly five whole servings of WIFOM. I'm wondering why you did it
I did it to give people a warning about potential dangers, something to talk about, and something I could use to judge reactions. Your apprehensiveness to vote me is partially based on a fear of being day killed. Why would a town player have this fear?

Notquitethere If your role had a form of units that you can gain through the game, what unit would you most like out of the following list: Dollars, Shakerags, photographs, data samples, mana points, minions, shadow clones.
Photographs sounds the most interesting. This can't help you scum hunt and we're already in conversation so it's hardly breaking the ice, so I'm left with the impression that you're just going through the motions here.



Fallacy
The issue being, that if NQT's telling the truth, anybody who votes for him can promptly be killed.
However, I think he's lying about that ability. Why? Because it's overpowered. A two-shot day kill with the restriction that it can only be used on someone voting for the user? That seems like it was specifically designed as a defense, as an excuse "don't vote me". I don't think ZU would have given something like that to a player. NQT very well could be lying about that ability to protect himself.
I'm calling your bluff, Serial Killer NQT. If it's more convenient for you, ZU, vote Notquitethere.
You've got a lot of moxy, Fallacy. I like you. Now the typical scum player wants to play it safe, go after an easy target and avoid taking the risk of being day killed. You're putting your hand in the fire, daring it not to burn you. I'm not going to day kill you.

Waitaminute. WIFOM within WIFOM! What if NQT's actually a jester who's using this WIFOM to make it more likely that he would be lynched? This is worth thinking about, but for the moment I'm keeping my vote on NQT, because the serial killer hypothesis seems more likely. Or not. Bah, this is so confusing and WIFOMy!
If it helps, this is how I acted the last time I was town pretending to be a jester.

Everybody: Is it normal to have to wade through this much WIFOM in order to scumhunt? (Or SK hunt, or Cult hunt, or whatnot.)
Mafia is hard. The bad guys don't just roll over and sometimes town act in unusual ways. Do you have any opinions on how anyone else has played so far?

NQT, why the WIFOM, if you're town?
This is a good question. For scum, other players can be categorised in two ways: whether or not they can be lynched and whether or not they're dangerous. Scum generally want to kill players that are most dangerous to them. Town players can use claims and fakeclaims in a WIFOMY way to trick scum into mis-categorising how dangerous a given town opponent is.

As for why he's an sk or whatnot instead of scum: His claim. If it's real, the abilities it has seem better for an SK than a mafioso. If his claim is false, still, causing WIFOM.
This is partially a reasonable assessment, after all, I'm not mafia.



TDS
Everyone: What do you think about Jack's and NQT's claims?
Jack is probably telling the truth and we can expect some result from him by D2. NQT is probably lying about at least one of those claims. What do you think?
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #85 on: August 13, 2015, 06:48:27 pm »

NQT's claim: It's kind of absurd. No one in their right mind would post that... which may be what NQT was going for... agh my brain burns.
Jack's miniclaim: If his inspection or whatnot can help us cut out this WIFOM, I'd like it.

Oi, Deus Asmoth: Er, NQT said in Claim 2 that in the last game he was "jester-themed town", not "a jester". I think you misread.

Everyone: Who is most suspicious right now? (I'd say NQT, but the other players might have different opinions.)

~~~
Then NQT mega-posts.
~~~

Opinions on how people are acting: You are acting crazily, like some sort of antagonist, in my opinion. For everybody else, I don't really have reads beyond "exists".

"Town players can use claims and fakeclaims in a WIFOMy way to trick scum"... this I would agree with, but you took that up to eleven. No, up to twelve. You've overdone it immensely, and it's going to be difficult for you to dig your way out of my suspicion.

By the way, would everyone mind saying "I am town", just in case there's a truthteller here?

(Sorry about not properly quoting, but it's rather difficult for me to quote your mega-post. Let's see if I can...)

I did it to give people a warning about potential dangers, something to talk about, and something I could use to judge reactions. Your apprehensiveness to vote me is partially based on a fear of being day killed. Why would a town player have this fear?
Gotcha. Why would a town player have this fear? Well, every townie dead is one fewer in the way of a scum or sk or, in general, antagonist victory. Although a townie death isn't as great a loss for the town as a mafioso death is for the scum, it's still a loss which no good town player wants. Not wanting to vote someone who could day-kill them as a result of the vote is natural for any player(I certainly don't want to die, but I consider pressuring you worth the risk of death).

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flabort

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #86 on: August 13, 2015, 07:48:31 pm »

Tawarochir What kind of question would you least like to answer?
I don't really have a preference from question to question. How about you?
One that asked me to explain why I voted someone at the time that I did.

flabort
I'd like to register my objection to you using the past tense to refer to a question further down the post, first of all.

In any case, your question to TDS seems to be useful only in determining whether he has any starting bias in the game, since there's virtually nothing to work off at the moment other than NQT's bout of WIFOM. Your reasons for asking it could be many, since it depends both on  your alignment and how you're intending to play this game.

Your question to FoU is to determine whether anyone is trying to use voodoo you, I guess? Its purpose could be similar to the one to TDS' but to determine if there's any prejudice towards you specifically rather than in general.

Your question to me is designed to test whether I'm a rogue AI, since its self referential nature would trap me in an infinite loop if I were one. To be honest I don't see much point in it other than opening a dialogue, though.
0)Well, I had been referring to all three questions as one entity, whereas you referred to them as separate entities. However, very clever answers; particularly to the one to yourself. More of a "Why did I ask three people to answer questions that I asked other people"?
1) Objection noted. I did write his question first, but the names are sorted by the way they appear in the OP. I may try in the future to keep my posts temporally correct for you, if I don't forget.
2) I do admit I like my questions about starting bias. I was also hoping for TDS to give the answer he gave, though I can't remember what information I would have gained from him giving that answer. I think it was more of a "but what if he DOESN'T pick that answer" line of thought.
3) I can't object to anything about your answer about my question to FoU, nor can I confirm it, but I can say it's close?
4) I wasn't thinking of rogue AIs, no. I'm pretty sure you're not an AI; whether you're rogue or not is the actually important matter, but the question had nothing to do with that. Opening a dialog was a primary purpose, yes.

TheDarkStar Same question that I gave Tiruin.

NQT, in case he actually has two daykills.


Everyone: What do you think about Jack's and NQT's claims?
So... I admitted above in this post that I don't remember why I asked you and Tiruin that question in particular... but I think that's a trustworthy answer. Is there any reason that you can think of that I should trust the answer?

I think NQT's claims are probably bogus, but a pretty good deterrent. See also my reply to him in this post below. I can't ignore it since the claims are so big.
I think Jack's claim is soft enough that I can't tell what action he has, but I do have some guesses in a post above. Small enough to ignore for now.

Flabort
Why the fishing so early? I call your claiming fishing because I almost told you about my role in response to some of those claims.
Wow. I think that's maybe more of an indication of your readiness to spill the beans that my propensity to solicit bean spillage. D1, no one has information and we're just jumping at shadows. I thought I'd give people something to chew on.

Like falacy pointed out and you admitted, this is certainly five whole servings of WIFOM. I'm wondering why you did it
I did it to give people a warning about potential dangers, something to talk about, and something I could use to judge reactions. Your apprehensiveness to vote me is partially based on a fear of being day killed. Why would a town player have this fear?

Notquitethere If your role had a form of units that you can gain through the game, what unit would you most like out of the following list: Dollars, Shakerags, photographs, data samples, mana points, minions, shadow clones.
Photographs sounds the most interesting. This can't help you scum hunt and we're already in conversation so it's hardly breaking the ice, so I'm left with the impression that you're just going through the motions here.
1) OK, maybe it takes some willpower to keep the beans unspilt; or maybe one of our roles interacts with the other's in some way, depending on which of your claims are true. Oh d*** it, there I go, leaving the bean lid open a little. Let's cap that back up...
Is there a reason people don't usually claim day one, and admit to lying in their first post on day one? Would you count wine as something solid enough to chew on? Is there a reason townies don't usually use WIFOM as a weapon, or lie? Don't you think that some shadows have more substance than others later in the day?

2) How many of those are actual potential dangers and how many are red herrings? I can't argue about it being something to talk about, because you can tell I'm talking about it right now. As for judging my reaction:
A towny would fear being lynched because they know it's a mislynch. A towny would fear being killed at all because it would make the wincondition of someone else, typically the mafia, more fulfilled, which would in turn make the towny's wincondition harder to fulfill. It also makes a towny's wincon harder to fulfill if they can't participate in hunting the scum anymore. I'd like to avoid being lynched right away before I can do anything meaningful, and I'd like to avoid attracting a daykill for the same reason.
Of all your abilities claimed, though, that one seems least likely, so I may wind up voting you later. For now I'm just going to Finger of Suspicion NQT.

3) Good catch. Yes, we already were in conversation when I asked that, and yes the ice is broke. I can say that going through the motions was a primary motivation of asking you a question, since I felt like asking one to everyone on the list. I do say that there was a little ice left and that helped clear it away, and I can't say anything further on the subject now, but you made a good catch.

Everyone: Who is most suspicious right now? (I'd say NQT, but the other players might have different opinions.)
would everyone mind saying "I am town", just in case there's a truthteller here?
Right now? Not including myself (A state that I'd like to avoid no matter what alignment I play), and not including NQT? Hmm, that's a tough one. If NQT were allowed, of course, that would be my pick right now, but since I probably have to pick someone who isn't NQT, I'd choose... *groan* Jack A T. His response to NQT's response to his claim is baffling; who wouldn't come to that conclusion after reading JackClaim2; especially the person being threatened? Yes, I headed there too, thinking he was claiming a kill, when I read that claim. And claiming to mimic NQT was suspicious too.

I am town.
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flabort

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #87 on: August 13, 2015, 07:50:56 pm »

EBWOP: Jack
I know you can't reply to this until Saturday, which is a shame because I eagerly await your response to my RVS question and to my reason for voting (My answer to Falacy at the bottom of my last post which this is an EBWOP to), so I may take this vote off later, but of the players who aren't NQT, I find you most suspicious.
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Tawa

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #88 on: August 13, 2015, 08:00:56 pm »

NQT: I have a theory as to what you're doing and your motivations for it. But I'm going to keep that to myself until I can get reads on others, and possibly wait for the investigation results.
By the way, would everyone mind saying "I am town", just in case there's a truthteller here?
What the bloody buggering hell are you trying to do?
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Bring Your Own Picture 3 - Day 1 - Day at the Museum
« Reply #89 on: August 13, 2015, 08:09:24 pm »

Trying to get everyone to say "I am town" just in case there's a truth teller. If there is a truth teller, it would be useful for town to have the "I am town" quotes available for the truth teller to test.

Might as well say it as well-

I am town.
No, I myself am not a truthteller, but I would like to give any truth teller there is an edge(if there is one). If there's not a truth teller anyway, there's no harm done.
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