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[LordSlowpoke]

shrapnel

in orbit

that'll fuck us every bit as much as it'll fuck the enemy, you realize?

if we could just deorbit it somehow without creating space debris, that'd be peachy

[Graknorke]

It's in LEO, it'll re-enter soon enough. Chances are it won't hit anything before then anyway.

[Stirk]

A single tube? I'd have gone for at least 4 otherwise it's kind of a waste isn't it?

But I've gone over the idea a bit and I figure that 8 should be comfortable number (I mean, if we can get astronauts up then we can get quite a few small projectiles in). Calculations on firing angles can be done on the ground and passed to the satellite which only needs to rotate to those angles and fire the rockets. The satellite is literally just a platform to stick missile tubes on, it shouldn't be any more complicated than existing comms satellites.
Since we're dealing with space distances here there need to be measures to give as much accuracy leeway as possible. An obvious way around is just to fire more than one rocket at once, to allow for the inherent imprecision that you'll get. Then when the missile is within a certain distance of the target (this could be either by a configurable mechanical timer or more likely triggered by a radio signal) it detonates a directed charge that sends very dense shrapnel in a tight arc (10 degrees or so?) towards whatever is meant to be hit. Sharapnel will still badly damage any sort of sensitive equipment, and has a decent chance of doing nasty things to pressurised hulls.

I am trying to keep it as cheap as possible, it probably is cheaper to send 8 one tube up then it is to send one 8 tube up due to game mechanics. I agree with the missile idea, but would like to point out our current design is guided, which should make it accurate enough to hit. I personally think we should work on guidance rather than just missile spam.

[Graknorke]

You can't use fins in an atmosphere. Guided missiles as a concept in space are tricky to make work. At least, not in the way they work in atmosphere. No matter how they go they'd be mostly ballistic, but "guided" would come with some course corrections along the way. If you do that you need some sort of RCS system or something to make it turn more, which makes it heavier and probably less effective.

As for the launch mechanics, I'm not really sure about that. The whole "we already have capacity to send people to the moon" was a bit of a surprise, but as far as we've been told we only have the one rocket. It shouldn't be any cheaper to launch under capacity.

GUNIN, could we get clarification on that?

[Stirk]

You can't use fins in an atmosphere. Guided missiles as a concept in space are tricky to make work. At least, not in the way they work in atmosphere. No matter how they go they'd be mostly ballistic, but "guided" would come with some course corrections along the way. If you do that you need some sort of RCS system or something to make it turn more, which makes it heavier and probably less effective.

As for the launch mechanics, I'm not really sure about that. The whole "we already have capacity to send people to the moon" was a bit of a surprise, but as far as we've been told we only have the one rocket. It shouldn't be any cheaper to launch under capacity.

GUNIN, could we get clarification on that?

Not really. I was under the impression that we already have vectored thrust technology. Refining it to guide our missiles would probably only take up a revision phase. We need to understand the Exoense mechanic later.

[VoidSlayer]

LeGuMS - Laser Guided Missile System

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Develop a targeting laser which can supplement the existing radar targeting.  Longer range and more accurate in ideal conditions and can be added to all existing missiles and jets.

Then we add these to our satellites and have the ability to launch accurate long range missiles in LEO.

[Graknorke]

Again, missile guidance in orbit is nothing like missile guidance in atmosphere. You can't just point and thrust, it'd be a much more complex process of burst fires to make course corrections.
I mean, in real life the closest thing to what we're looking for is probably this thing, except of course without the need to get it to orbit. The kind of guidance on the final stage was nothing like you'd see on a traditional missile.

EDIT: Not that laser guidance is a bad idea in itself (though I mean we already have radar designation which is pretty much the same, just with a different wavelength being searched for) but I think we were kind of set on space weapons here.
But yes for guidance you want effectively a payload with mounted thrusters for maneuvering, rather than the traditional single-stage missile that we're used to.

[Stirk]

Again, missile guidance in orbit is nothing like missile guidance in atmosphere. You can't just point and thrust, it'd be a much more complex process of burst fires to make course corrections.
I mean, in real life the closest thing to what we're looking for is probably this thing, except of course without the need to get it to orbit. The kind of guidance on the final stage was nothing like you'd see on a traditional missile.

It is by no means unobtainable, especially not in this game. I am actually talking about this concept. Which is used successfully in the atmosphere, such as the Trident missile. I mean, ballistic missiles go out of the atmosphere all the time, it isn't like we are trying to make super-agile tracker missiles. We are just trying to improve their accuracy a bit.

**Edit**

Didn't see your edit anyway  .

[Parsely]

As for the launch mechanics, I'm not really sure about that. The whole "we already have capacity to send people to the moon" was a bit of a surprise, but as far as we've been told we only have the one rocket. It shouldn't be any cheaper to launch under capacity.

GUNIN, could we get clarification on that?

Yes, you've only got the one rocket type. Everything on the list is the stuff you have, nothing more. It was only the capsules that I forgot. This driving me a little crazy now.

[Graknorke]

@GUNIN Okay, good thanks.

@ Glorious Confederate Engineers
So to get the missile working how we want it we want a vectored solid rocket motor to propel it towards target, and we can swap out the explosive payload for some sensors and reaction control systems for meuvering and acceleration in the stages just before impact? The kinetic energy alone should be enough to do considerable damage to anything not designed to absorb impacts from large dense objects (and for real who designs spacecraft hulls for that?).
Then we put those missile tubes onto some barely-retrofitted communication satellites and launch clusters of them (however many the Valiance can comfortably carry) into orbit to be activated when needed.

[Stirk]

We still need to get the missile satellites, before designing a missile for them to use. Our current missile should be enough to make some gains, we can get the next gen up next turn.

I hope to keep the Sunrises at "Expensive", so we can make up for their lack of quality with quantity, until we get some upgrades. Since the design is basically "a missile tube", I think that is obtainable. If you want to add more rocket tubes to see if we can keep it at the same price, we might have to wait until the Revision phase (Since we kind of wasted our last one). They are just supposed to be cheap disposables, after all.

[Graknorke]

Alright, so the Sunrise needs;

Power: Could easily be just battery powered and runs on very low consumption, listening until it's activated with some sort of unique code. Considering that our current power storage allows for full operation of some satellites long enough to be sending and receiving communications constantly, this should be fine.
Control: No real computing needed, just relay instructions from the radio receiver to the appropriate parts, and broadcast sensor information when requested. A gyroscope for orienting itself would be needed too, as well as a way to fire the missiles obviously.
Sensors: Position could be triangulated by reading its signal from communication satellites and ground stations, but detecting orientation would need a compass onboard.
Communications: Radio transceiver to communicate with the controllers on the ground.
Weapons: Missile tubes. Duh.

EDIT: And yeah, quantity is pretty great with these kinds of things. As many as can be launched per rocket (which should be quite a few for something light like this, very possibly in excess of 10) would give good redundancy, the small size and low-power idle state making them somewhat harder to detect, and over time the spread would give good coverage.

[Stirk]

Alright, so the Sunrise needs;

Power: Could easily be just battery powered and runs on very low consumption, listening until it's activated with some sort of unique code. Considering that our current power storage allows for full operation of some satellites long enough to be sending and receiving communications constantly, this should be fine.
Control: No real computing needed, just relay instructions from the radio receiver to the appropriate parts, and broadcast sensor information when requested. A gyroscope for orienting itself would be needed too, as well as a way to fire the missiles obviously.
Sensors: Position could be triangulated by reading its signal from communication satellites and ground stations, but detecting orientation would need a compass onboard.
Communications: Radio transceiver to communicate with the controllers on the ground.
Weapons: Missile tubes. Duh.

EDIT: And yeah, quantity is pretty great with these kinds of things. As many as can be launched per rocket (which should be quite a few for something light like this, very possibly in excess of 10) would give good redundancy, the small size and low-power idle state making them somewhat harder to detect, and over time the spread would give good coverage.

Eh, its mostly something to build off of later. It should get us more resources, at least for the time being, while be easy to make.

I like all those things, it really doesn't have to be complicated. +1 to your Sunrise specifications.

[~Neri]

What is our major research project this turn?

[Stirk]

What is our major research project this turn?

We should probably vote on it. We can make a list.

List of ideas:
S1 Bouncer (Comm sat)
Needle LRAAM (air-to-air missile)
Moonkiller Armor
Ten Suns (Heat sat)
Sunrise (disposable missile Sat) (Stirk's Vote)