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Author Topic: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1935 Production  (Read 159017 times)

Andres

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1916 Production
« Reply #315 on: July 27, 2015, 05:30:40 am »

20mm autocannons. For aircraft, mostly.
Seems kinda limited. When we actually get an aircraft out onto the field, then we can design an autocannon. An aircraft-mounted autocannon won't be useful due to having no aircraft to fight against and an autocannon would serve less on the ground than a .50 cal sniper rifle.

One more possible petrol vehicle to design - light artillery tractor to pull our 80mms, belt machineguns and future designs. Ideally it should work in jungles.

Gives experience for a proper tank later and boosts our artillery advantage.

Oh, and can we go straight to diesel engine? This route leaves us without aviation but otherwise it is better.
I just looked at the date and realised we have a major problem. The Oil will last us to 2020. If we design something that uses 2 Oil - in 1917 at the earliest - we'd have 2 years to use it before we can't any more. 2 years is far too short a time to get a decent advantage with trucks or artillery tractors. It's just not worth designing them. Yes, we waste the Oil we're getting but the long-term problems of using a Design phase for this outweigh the short-term advantages.

Besides, motorcycles can get our men to the front lines faster than trucks can (assuming we have enough (we will)) and the latest artillery revision already makes our artillery pretty mobile.

If we will need a more power to stop their armored cars... I suggest revision to design AP 7.62 bullets. Tungsten tips and stuff like this. Easier than new weapons.
Definitely a good idea, but then we can't make our SMG non-Expensive. Let's see how well our SMGs and new artillery do. If either one does well, we should focus on the SMG. (If the artillery does well we don't have to worry about ACs, and if the SMG does well it would do really well if we deployed more of them.)

Next turn, if we design cheap motorcycles and revise our SMGs, our assault capabilities would be next to none.

Glory to Arstotzka.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 05:33:25 am by Andres »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1916 Production
« Reply #316 on: July 27, 2015, 05:39:03 am »


 AP rounds sound like a good idea. Toobad we cant design both AP rounds and scopes for our mosins...
Who says we can't?

One more possible petrol vehicle to design - light artillery tractor to pull our 80mms, belt machineguns and future designs. Ideally it should work in jungles.

Gives experience for a proper tank later and boosts our artillery advantage.
Should be nice. Especially if that means Jungle artillery.

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Oh, and can we go straight to diesel engine? This route leaves us without aviation but otherwise it is better.
___________
Diesel aviation is not impossible, though it is problematic.

If we will need a more power to stop their armored cars... I suggest revision to design AP 7.62 bullets. Tungsten tips and stuff like this. Easier than new weapons.
Early experience with that will be nice.

Ok, it seems the Struunk is not Expensive at all. This means that it is very much able to kill any trucks we develop easily. If our artillery doesn't do a good enough stopping them, we'll have to go with heavy small arms or motorcycles. Cars - especially armoured cars - are slower than motorbikes and motorbikes can be used in the mountains.
Pretty sure it is. It should be, considering we have ore 3.

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I would rather we skip 50cal and head straight to cannons. Perhaps a 20mm to start with? There where sniper rifles using it, although they where a tad heavy, but then again, so are 50cal snipers. Use 20mm for anti-material, and use modded mosins for normal ones...
A 20mm to deal with some armoured cars is overkill. If we develop a .50 cal sniper, we have .50 Cal technology. This'll help us develop other .50 cal weapons such as the machine guns or pistols I mentioned. Developing a sniper that fires 20mm bullets will only give us the technology to build a 20mm sniper rifle. Nothing else. Besides, .50 cal is large but still sensible as opposed to Moskurg's .60 cal which is just ridiculous.
Imperial Traitor.

I don't see why 20 mm tech doesn't give us the tech to develop 20 mm machine guns and or pistols. Ok, probably a bit overkill for a pistol, but 20 mm makes for an excellent small autocannon.

1) Sniper rifle. I would prefer this out of the other methods. Arstotzka is great at marksmanship and this would play to our advantage. It would have usage in the trenches and especially in the Mountains. We may be able to develop a scope at the same time, further increasing its usefulness.

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2) Machine gun. A heavier machine gun would allow our defensive positions in the Mountains to be stronger and they'll be able to compete with the Stallions at range in the trenches. It'll also let our tanks fight back against the armoured cars easily. The problem is that we already have two machine gun variants and making another could just be an inefficient use of our time. Moreover, Moskurg is probably developing their own tank or tank-killer which this tank-mounted machine gun won't be able to stop. In the end, a useless endeavour in the case of tank-protection.
A heavy machine gun might be usefull later in ground to air/ air to air.

Glory to Arstotzka.


Quote
If we're going for a long-term decision, a vehicle that uses more than 1 Oil is certainly a bad idea. Also, I'm not entirely ruling out the biplane, I'm just saying we should pick up more technology before we try. A smaller, more efficient steam engine would make our trains run better, allow our tank crews to exist in more reasonable temperatures (as well as go faster), and allow us to have a plane. If you can think of other technologies that would help in its development, feel free to share.
I don't think a steampowered plane is going to work.


20mm autocannons. For aircraft, mostly.
Seems kinda limited. When we actually get an aircraft out onto the field, then we can design an autocannon. An aircraft-mounted autocannon won't be useful due to having no aircraft to fight against and an autocannon would serve less on the ground than a .50 cal sniper rifle.
Strafing the enemy supply lines can be quite devastating, depending on the range of the craft.

I just looked at the date and realised we have a major problem. The Oil will last us to 2020. If we design something that uses 2 Oil - in 1917 at the earliest - we'd have 2 years to use it before we can't any more. 2 years is far too short a time to get a decent advantage with trucks or artillery tractors. It's just not worth designing them. Yes, we waste the Oil we're getting but the long-term problems of using a Design phase for this outweigh the short-term advantages.
I don't think it'll be that bad. Besides, you know what you're saying with that. That's holding of motorization till the 1920's.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with artillery tractors being expensive. Same with our artillery, going from expensive to normal didn't do anything.

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Besides, motorcycles can get our men to the front lines faster than trucks can (assuming we have enough (we will)) and the latest artillery revision already makes our artillery pretty mobile.
It didn't improve mobility. It improved accuracy and traversability in fixed positions.

Quote
If we will need a more power to stop their armored cars... I suggest revision to design AP 7.62 bullets. Tungsten tips and stuff like this. Easier than new weapons.
Definitely a good idea, but then we can't make our SMG non-Expensive. Let's see how well our SMGs and new artillery do. If either one does well, we should focus on the SMG. (If the artillery does well we don't have to worry about ACs, and if the SMG does well it would do really well if we deployed more of them.)

Next turn, if we design cheap motorcycles and revise our SMGs, our assault capabilities would be next to none.

Glory to Arstotzka.
I assume an AP SMG round is pointless, so yeah.
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Andres

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1916 Production
« Reply #317 on: July 27, 2015, 05:43:35 am »

I assume an AP SMG round is pointless, so yeah.
The only use for AP rounds are the armoured cars. The SMG is useful in the jungle, in the trenches, in urban environments, and possibly in the Mountains. Motorcycles would drastically increase their effectiveness and would definitely make them useful in the Mountains.
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Aseaheru

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1916 Production
« Reply #318 on: July 27, 2015, 05:46:06 am »

 A 20mm autocannon, particularly with the right armor piercing shells, mounted, say, in a tank turret or on a gun carriage, would be able to deal with just about any vehicle they will design for... Atleast a few years. Knowing them, they will react to our tank with something totally insane, and slightly armored.

-Ninja edit-

 I was talking about in a single design phase.

 Dont we have jungle arty from our mortars?

 One word people: Airships! Particularly airships with oxygen gear and using helium.

 Yep, That it would.

 We may eventually also eb able to produce jeeps, which would be useful there aswell. Particularly as we could mount a light gun on one.

-
 
 Dont we have a HMG?

 Steampowered aircraft... That sort of existed, although they used hidrogen peroxide decomposing... I think it was in some early jets...

 Strafing is !!FUN!!, particularly for the strafed. At the least, it would divert resources from their frontlines.

-second ninja edit-

 Andres, jsut because its only useful against that now does not mean it wont become more useful later.
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Andres

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1916 Production
« Reply #319 on: July 27, 2015, 05:51:53 am »

Wouldn't a motorbike be useful both now and later without a gap in between?
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Aseaheru

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1916 Production
« Reply #320 on: July 27, 2015, 05:54:48 am »

 Who said anything about gaps in between? They arent likely to phase out all those armored cars anytime soon, and besides, they do have body armor, and it may have penertration enough that we can use them to test our own gear to see if it can withstand their dirty imperialist 60cal weapons.
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Andres

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1916 Production
« Reply #321 on: July 27, 2015, 06:04:59 am »

Ah, you're talking about the AP ammo. I thought you were talking about UR's Oil machines. AP rounds would certainly be useful now and later, but I reckon our SMG would do even more if we made it cheap. Their body armour is made more to defend against flak and the only other armour is on their AC. Our war effort will be better if the order of our revisions was SMG then AP instead of AP then SMG.
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Andres

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1917 Design
« Reply #322 on: July 27, 2015, 06:22:57 am »

Surprise surprise the SMG is considered "revolutionary" by the GM and it's enough to soundly beat the Moskurgians in CQC. It's also our most reliable Jungle weapon. Can we make it omnipresent now?

Design the AS-LV17.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Revise the AS-MC16 to decrease its complexity.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 06:33:42 am by Andres »
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Sensei

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1917 Design
« Reply #323 on: July 27, 2015, 06:27:36 am »

Surprise surprise the SMG is considered "revolutionary" by the GM and it's enough to soundly beat the Moskurgians in CQC. It's also our most reliable Jungle weapon. Can we make it omnipresent now?
I was a little surprised: Multiple sixes were rolled. You kinda skipped the "kludgy gun that jams all the time" phase.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1917 Design
« Reply #324 on: July 27, 2015, 06:33:24 am »

I think SMG is good as it is. Don't fix what isn't broken.

Can we design a less confusing letter-numbers scheme? Everything is becoming too similar.

While I like a motorbike concept I think it is too cheap for 2 oil... while we need to use 2 oil to win jungles and get point of oil before 1920
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Andres

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1917 Design
« Reply #325 on: July 27, 2015, 06:38:31 am »

I think SMG is good as it is. Don't fix what isn't broken.
We're not changing the performance of the SMG. All we're doing is making it cheap enough to potentially give to all of our soldiers. That's how it worked for our Nosin Magant when we simplified Clips and Magazines. It will be the same here. There is absolutely no sense in not multiplying our biggest advantage.

While I like a motorbike concept I think it is too cheap for 2 oil... while we need to use 2 oil to win jungles and get point of oil before 1920
1 Oil. Products which use more fuel than a motorcycle are Expensive.
Motorcycles do not use more fuels than motorcycles - they use an equal amount of fuel as motorcycles. They require 1 Oil to use. We can use them long after the Oil from Antegra stops coming.

(Can we stockpile the Oil we're getting?)

Glory to Arstotzka.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1917 Design
« Reply #326 on: July 27, 2015, 06:43:50 am »

If we don't plan to use oil we are getting from Antegra, then the deal is plain useless because we could design motorcycles for the same effect.
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Andres

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1917 Design
« Reply #327 on: July 27, 2015, 06:50:19 am »

If we don't plan to use oil we are getting from Antegra, then the deal is plain useless because we could design motorcycles for the same effect.
Getting something that just happens to use 1 Oil is in this case better than getting something specifically because it uses 2 Oil. Yes we're left with a sense of waste but irrationally trying to justify it by picking an inefficient path is illogical. At the very least, we've made a name for ourselves in the arms market. Moskurg is entirely unknown. That gives us at least some amount of international glory while Moskurg has zero glory.

Glory to Arstotzka.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2015, 06:53:50 am by Andres »
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10ebbor10

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1917 Design
« Reply #328 on: July 27, 2015, 06:55:28 am »

On the other hand, if we mess up the motor on the artillery tractor, then we can use that experience for the motorcycle.

Besides, an expensive artillery tractor is not at all a problem. Our troops don't need their own personal tractor (though it might be  nice to move their personal artillery piece).
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Andres

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Re: Arms Race, Arstotzka: 1917 Design
« Reply #329 on: July 27, 2015, 07:01:20 am »

Do we even need to move around our artillery? They're so cheap already, can't we just dot them all around our territory and move our crews between them? /joke

But in all seriousness, we haven't received a single battle report stating that our current artillery's mobility is an issue. Motorbikes will let us leverage the awesome might of our SMGs everywhere - including the Mountains. They might even be fast enough to go completely around the enemy and sabotage their supply lines.
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