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[Sheb]

Anyway, I really want to use our new design in action. No peace this turn.

[Powder Miner]

I mean, if you Arstotzkans are gonna try and push for an unconditional surrender, we could just keep killing a bunch of people. Especially because getting any sort of treaty in the first place requires us to stick our necks waaaaay out personally. We could just hold a guerrilla revolution, and the Moskurg citizens would certainly support us. Tigers released in the capital, sudden flamethrower arson, that sort of thing.

[Andres]

I mean, if you Arstotzkans are gonna try and push for an unconditional surrender, we could just keep killing a bunch of people. Especially because getting any sort of treaty in the first place requires us to stick our necks waaaaay out personally. We could just hold a guerrilla revolution, and the Moskurg citizens would certainly support us. Tigers released in the capital, sudden flamethrower arson, that sort of thing.

Sure, giving Arstotzka an excuse to level the place is totally the logical thing to do. We still get all the resources of the island and Moskurg's technology so why should we care? Honestly, Moskurg has a lot more to lose than Arstotzka if they start getting uppity.

[Powder Miner]

There's nothing stopping us from destroying the technology and/or some of the resources before you can get it if you're going to try to take them without OUR cooperation: we're the ones with the tech anyway, and you might find outright leveling us to be a very difficult task; you don't outclass us THAT much. There's no downside for offering a mutually appreciable treaty for you, you'd get the technology we would otherwise destroy, and get a lot less post-war resistance from it.
Besides, we're not alone in the world. Should you try to raze Moskurg, perhaps the other nations of the world would take interest in our plight... I hear the Brits were pretty sour about the whole colony thing.

[andrea]

for one, I don't think the treaty should include killing their leaders. I suspect that they wouldn't sign a treaty involving their death, even if it means a slaughter among commoners. Hence why I proposed exile.

then, I think some concessions are in orderto keep peace after the war: pints in bars,  transition period from imperial to metric, universal citizenship. Arstotzka dominance can be enforced in other fields, such as political organization. But we need to frame this as a reunification to hope to rule the whole island. The old high command and some important figures can be used as scapegoats. If you want an execution, get a war hero or something.

And if the proposal I voted for wins , I totally want to fight another round 

[Playergamer]

Uh. You do realize that, if you integrate Moskurgs, they will be excessively violent? Didn't Sensei say that the Arstotzkans and the Moskurgs felt almost biologically compelled to kill each other, sincr the start of time?

Like, one man is created in the north of the island, one in the south, and they both walks towards the center. They get there at the same time, staring at each other, before simutaneously picking up rocks and trying to kill each other.

[Andres]

There's nothing stopping us from destroying the technology and/or some of the resources before you can get it if you're going to try to take them without OUR cooperation

Do tell how you're going to destroy all the Oil and Ore deep within Forenia's crust. You might destroy the ore excavators and the oil pumps, but you can't destroy the resources themselves. As for your technology, it really isn't that great. We're about equal already, so missing out on it won't be that bad.

Besides, we're not alone in the world. Should you try to raze Moskurg, perhaps the other nations of the world would take interest in our plight... I hear the Brits were pretty sour about the whole colony thing.

Something tells me the world is going to be very occupied with other stuff in the coming years. Besides, just look what happened to the Brits after they'd successfully conquered us.

you might find outright leveling us to be a very difficult task; you don't outclass us THAT much.

Let's see, we have the entire well armed, well trained, and very experienced Arstotzkan army versus a bunch of Moskurg civilians with some outdated weapons. We win.

[andrea]

I hope the recent beating and some concessions will help.
on Arstotzka side, some exiles and executions might sate the thirst for blood.

I hope it works, but if it doesn't it will be much easier to genocide after our soldiers are in Moskurg disarmed roads. ( which they will be anyway in a couple of turns)

As for foreign nations intervening, they will soon be busy. And by the time WW2 ends, we will likely be able to match most of them. Think about it: an unified forenia might get twice the designs per turn! and we are already more advanced in some fields.( less in other, but that is what the double design is for)

[Powder Miner]

Do tell how you're going to destroy all the Oil and Ore deep within Forenia's crust. You might destroy the ore excavators and the oil pumps, but you can't destroy the resources themselves. As for your technology, it really isn't that great. We're about equal already, so missing out on it won't be that bad.

So first you make a big deal of how Moskurger technology is one of the prizes you'll get and now it's not that bad to lose it? Sounds like sour grapes to meeeee.

Let's see, we have the entire well armed, well trained, and very experienced Arstotzkan army versus a bunch of Moskurg civilians with some outdated weapons. We win.

You are making the mistake of assuming conventional warfare. Plus it's not like you've completely wiped out our military, we've still got a significant army.

Besides, you can't refute the most important point here:

There's no downside for offering a mutually appreciable treaty for you, you'd get the technology we would otherwise destroy, and get a lot less post-war resistance from it.

Surely you have that much self-interest?
Look... we may be of opposing nations, but we're both engineers, and we're probably all in some keel of danger from our High Commands now. We can fight, or we could not, but it increases all of our lifespans if we're not trying to fight basically everyone at once.

[Andres]

Do tell how you're going to destroy all the Oil and Ore deep within Forenia's crust. You might destroy the ore excavators and the oil pumps, but you can't destroy the resources themselves. As for your technology, it really isn't that great. We're about equal already, so missing out on it won't be that bad.

So first you make a big deal of how Moskurger technology is one of the prizes you'll get and now it's not that bad to lose it? Sounds like sour grapes to meeeee.

I only mentioned it because it's the only other thing of worth that Moskurg has. Aside from its few unique technologies and its resources, Moskurg is nothing but crap.

Moskurg and Arstotzka have been at war since time immemorial. Some post-war fighting and the temporary loss of a few non-essential technologies is a tiny price to pay for total victory.

Glory to Arstotzka.

[Sheb]

The same could be said to you. Do you really want to see so much suffering rather than surrendering?

[Taricus]

• Moskurg High Command is exiled from Forenia
• All Prisoners of War are immediately released and assistance provided to return home
• Members of both nations are now officially United Forenian Citizens
• Moskurg and Arstotzka as no longer considered independent states, but constituent regions under the flag of United Forenia
• All official measurements are hence forth to be in metric, with a ten year period of double use to ease transition
• The only exception to part five is the legal sale of alcoholic beverages in licensed drinking establishments
• The United Forenian Flag main theme is to be a single tiger and several stars (concept art pending)

Eh, this list works. Besides, with WW2 coming up, I doubt the game will end until we end up having to storm berlin or tokyo or something.

[Powder Miner]

The same could be said to you. Do you really want to see so much suffering rather than surrendering?

Well, let's go over the ways this could end.
A. The war stalls out. High Command executes me unless I'm useful enough.
B. We surrender and I submit. I probably get executed anyway. If not, I have miserable pint-less existence.
C. A mutually beneficial peace deal is reached, and I don't get executed. I also get pints and tigers. You get technology and everyone prospers.
D. We surrender but we also carry on guerrilla warfare. I possibly have a fighting chance at staying alive for a while the remainder of my life is spent with glorious Moskurger culture.

[andrea]

I don't think anyone proposed executing the engineers? we would gain nothing by killing you guys. You are not famous people in either country, executing the engineering department would not have a significant effect on the morale of either nation.

[Powder Miner]

Yeah, that's why I pointed out the miserable pintless existence.