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[Sensei]

I'll agree that we're pretty much done here since Moskurg can't really field anything worth a damn(unless they start making things out of wood ). I gotta say, looking back I think what really clinched it for us was when we managed to take the plains and prevent you guys from kicking us out, while conversely we prevented you from being able to exploit the jungle that one time you actually managed to take it.

Yeah, based on this, I feel like I didn't balance things too badly. Arstotzka got some strong early momentum from taking the plains, but there were a couple spots where Moskurg almost really turned it around- but not quite, as it would happen. Moskurg once almost broke Arstotzka's hold on the plains, and once almost got a good hold on the jungle, but both times IIRC they kinda split their focus, taking their success for granted and focusing on making designs for the other front where they weren't doing as well. Thus they didn't manage to change the resource advantage.

[Andres]

what were the arguments used against both holding plains and kicking out of jungle? It has been so long I can't remember.

When we were being pushed back into the Plains, some were arguing that we should just try to capture the Mountains. When Moskurg captured the Jungle, some were in favour of continuing our push into the Desert.

I'll agree that we're pretty much done here since Moskurg can't really field anything worth a damn(unless they start making things out of wood ). I gotta say, looking back I think what really clinched it for us was when we managed to take the plains and prevent you guys from kicking us out, while conversely we prevented you from being able to exploit the jungle that one time you actually managed to take it.

Yeah, based on this, I feel like I didn't balance things too badly. Arstotzka got some strong early momentum from taking the plains, but there were a couple spots where Moskurg almost really turned it around- but not quite, as it would happen. Moskurg once almost broke Arstotzka's hold on the plains, and once almost got a good hold on the jungle, but both times IIRC they kinda split their focus, taking their success for granted and focusing on making designs for the other front where they weren't doing as well. Thus they didn't manage to change the resource advantage.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened. If Moskurg had just decided to press their advantages when they had them, the war would've remained a stalemate.

EDIT: Considering we're stalled in the Mountains and Jungle, Moskurg might've actually been the ones winning the war instead of Arstotzka.

[andrea]

when they were taking back the plains, I remember we made a cheap tank destroyer as a "you shall not pass" effort to remove their armored advantage in case we couldn't revise our tank. We had all our resources on defending the plains at all costs ( all our designs relied on the resources we stood to lose).

I was surprised when they designed the sorrraia light machinegun, out of all things. The cascade I can see, it helps in trenches. but considering we would obviously try to fix our tank, wasting time on a light machinegun seemed an odd effort.

[Aseaheru]

what were the arguments used against both holding plains and kicking out of jungle? It has been so long I can't remember.

When we were being pushed back into the Plains, some were arguing that we should just try to capture the Mountains. When Moskurg captured the Jungle, some were in favour of continuing our push into the Desert.

Looking these up, but I know that for the "moskurg capture jungle, just continue push into desert" most, if not all, of the suggestions where for autocannon-armed scout cars, which turned the tide there rather well.

[Andres]

Moskurg's cavalry have had an advantage in the form of the assault rifle for a while now. Do our motorbikes get a similar advantage now what we have an even better assault rifle?

[andrea]

their cavalry is no longer mentioned, so i suppose yes.

[Sheb]

The issue I feel was that we didn't really know how to take back the jungles (it's not intuitive that the jungle is mostly about armored warfare) and also that we expected that taking the desert to be much more effective. (I mean, we got like 6 steps beyond the plains, took several cities and had exactly no impact on Moksurg industry).

Another good idea for future game might be to require logisitc points to advance beyond a the middle provinces, counteracting the advantage the winning side gets from potentially more resources.


Anyway, I think we should summarily shoot andrea before he manages to loose the war by treaty. Seriously, Arstotzka being just another part of a new "Greater Forenia"? Our glorious flag next to the rag Moskurg use? No Tiger extermination campaign? No reparations for the untold misery Arstotzka had to suffer (like housing smelly Moskurg POW?

Is that seriously what we fought for?

[Aseaheru]

 It got an advantage when we gave them battle riles and then SMGs, its just that we dont seem to have any vehicular combat outside of tanks.

-ninja edits, unnoticed for 30min-

Sheb, dont be nasty.

[andrea]

but united forenia would use metric. Isn't that, like, the most important cultural difference between our sides and possibly the reason of the war?

Also yes, at the time the effect of taking the desert wasn't that defined I think.

Kashyyk's treaty seems fine. considering this is an annexation war ( or, rather, reunification under our rightful rule) most of those points we would have to do anyway.

Also, I should note that I am currently wearing the prototype of our newly acquired tiger armor. ( or IP-IA-35)

[Andres]

Sheb, dont be nasty.

He's just being in-character. I've said much worse without criticism.

Just for the record, I'm of the belief that once Arstotzka conquers Moskurg, it should be known that the continent of Forenia is ruled by the country of Arstotzka. There will be no pseudo-alliance or changing of names. It will be Arstotzka and only Arstotzka. Glory to Arstotzka.

I'm entirely against anything that's not an unconditional surrender on Moskurg's part. We fought too hard and too long to accept anything else, especially when we're just two zones away from total victory.

[Sheb]

1) Moskurg will be entirely annexed into Arstotzka. Artotzka might be renamed Greater Arstotzka (Or AS-C-35)
2) All Moskurg armed forces will be disbanded.
3) Moskurg High Command will be shot for treason. If possible, the Arstotzkan high command will be dressed up in Moskurger uniforms and shot too.
4) Tigers will be exterminated.
5) A ten year phasing in period will take place, which is the time needed to turns Moskurger into proud Arstotzkan citizens.
6) As reparation far all the salt Arstotzka had to use during the war, every Moskurg male aged between 18 and 50 will have to provide one year of labor in the salt mines over the next 10 years.
7) The imperial system will be banned all over Forenia, except for ordering pints in bar.
All Moskurger alcoholic drink will be banned, to be replaced by 5 Star Vodka. Feel free to use your pint on that.
9) Moskurg will recognize it stole the Cascade patent and repay the value of the royalties to the Arstotzkan treasury.

[Ghazkull]

Wait we never used the bloody imperial system.

[10ebbor10]

Wait we never used the bloody imperial system.

Look at your technology list.

[andrea]

Moskurg uses imperial and has always used imperial. In fact, imperial vs metric  has been a continuous source of insults and conflict since the start of the game.

[Andres]

1) Artotzka might be renamed Greater Arstotzka (Or AS-C-35)
3) If possible, the Arstotzkan high command will be dressed up in Moskurger uniforms and shot too.
4) Tigers will be exterminated.
6) As reparation far all the salt Arstotzka had to use during the war, every Moskurg male aged between 18 and 50 will have to provide one year of labor in the salt mines over the next 10 years.
7) The imperial system will be banned all over Forenia, except for ordering pints in bar.
All Moskurger alcoholic drink will be banned, to be replaced by 5 Star Vodka. Feel free to use your pint on that.

1. There is nothing greater than Arstotzka! To call anything Greater Arstotzka is to imply current Arstotzka can be lesser to anything! It shall be forever called Arstotzka! Glory to Arstotzka!
3. I am against the killing of Arstotzka's High Command. Despite some mistakes they've made, they have worked for over two decades in ensuring Arstotzka's victory. They organised soldiers to be armed with weapons, generals to take objectives, and the trains to run on time. They've done Arstotzka proud.
4. Forenia is an island continent. The tigers that exist here are likely a unique species. Instead, Arstotzka should make them a protected species, unlike Moskurg who eats them, imprisons them for show, and does unsavory things with them.
6. Slavery is bad so no.
7. The imperial system will be banned completely. Pints will likewise be abolished. Once the imperial system has a foothold, it spreads like a disease. It must be completely cut out.
8. Those who were formally Moskurg should wait for 10 years before they can have the luxury of 5 Star Vodka. Moskurg should continue to be allowed to drink their own drinks, if only to prevent rebellion.

Aside from those points, I agree with the treaty.

Glory to Arstotzka.