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[Kot]

FINALLY! AN TRUE ARSTOTZKAN MANS UP AND STANDS AGAINST MAGIC!
YOU WILL GET A MEDAL COMRADE!

You do realize you're just pulling the rug from underneath us by providing the enemy with a reality breaking device, that hence can't be countered? I mean, how do you deal with something that shouldn't be able to penetrate your armor, but does anyway? (I have to grasp at straws to even come up with a possible solution)

If it was a regular recoiless rifle shooting HEAT or HESH, simple slat armor would do.
Since it's shoots AP and APHE, only way to do it is incerase the armor, pretty much.

Anyway, the problem is not that the enemy have a Recoilless Rifle. The problem is that they have a recoilless rifle that breaks our armor via AP.
Recoilless rifle are characterized by having extremely low muzzle velocities. The M67, designed in the 60's had a muzzle velocity of 213 m/s.

For comparison, The Becker type m2 20 mm autocannon has a muzzle velocity of 490 m/s, and later more advanced autocannons were higher.

The shells the Hippo/Rhino fire are 2.2 inch (56 mm). The shells fired by our autocannon are 20 mm. This means the surface area of our bullet is almost 8 times smaller.

Also, I belive that their muzzle velocity is much, much lower, as M18 Recoiless rifle (57mm, similar), built during WW2 had 365 m/s of muzzle velocity, and had more of it than any other recoiless gun of the time. So I suppose the actual muzzle velocity of their guns is somewhere around 100-200 m/s.

Now, we didn't need all this calculator stuff. It should have been patently obvious from the beginning, that AP rounds on a recoilless rifle shouldn't work. We said that like 40 times.

This. This so much (sometimes I feel that Sensei doesn't read 9/10 of the stuff we post, which is actually understandable, but eh).

[Sheb]

Well, Moksburg got shaped charge, couldn't you retcon that they use rather inaccurate HEAT shells, like we do?

[Kot]

Well, Moksburg got shaped charge, couldn't you retcon that they use rather inaccurate HEAT shells, like we do?

Didin't they built the shaped charge a lot later than the Rhino tho? Retconning that would be hard.

[10ebbor10]

Retcons don't happen. I mean the, Moskurgians got to keep the gains they made with their radio equiped tanks, despite the fact that later investigation found out that only 1 such tank ever existed.

Only future things are changed.

[Sheb]

Well, what's done is done, but at least we can possibly design a counter-measure.

[LordSlowpoke]

arstotzka is just mad because moskung designs are stronk enough to beat reality in the face with its own fist while they can't even design a good pistol for two decades now

[evilcherry]

Aren't the Rhino coming with HE ammo? You don't really need HEAT or APHE to defeat relatively thin armor.

In any case, I think Sensei is thinking along the lines "RPG should be quite similar to Recoilless rifles in game terms".

[Kot]

arstotzka is just mad because moskung designs are stronk enough to beat reality in the face with its own fist while they can't even design a good pistol for two decades now

And you're fucking tigers.
Also yes, this is a proper way to respond to all Moskurgian propaganda that says Arstotzka is inferior in any way.

Aren't the Rhino coming with HE ammo? You don't really need HEAT or APHE to defeat relatively thin armor.

In any case, I think Sensei is thinking along the lines "RPG should be quite similar to Recoilless rifles in game terms".

RPGs are easy to defeat with slat armor (as Moskurgs just did), since they're HEAT.
Recoiless rifles should be HEAT too, but they're AP, and such slat armor has no effect.

So, you're proposing we should make RPGs with AP or APHE rounds?
That's... madness.

[Kashyyk]

Eh. Tigers are better than Arstotzkan women anyway.

[LordSlowpoke]

goes arstotzka even have women

how do you guys reproduce

through spores?

[Kot]

goes arstotzka even have women

how do you guys reproduce

through spores?

Through GLORY!

[QuakeIV]

I vote against changing the capitols name to Arstotzka.

Seriously guys, what the hell.  The hyphenated code name is part of our national identity.

[10ebbor10]

arstotzka is just mad because moskung designs are stronk enough to beat reality in the face with its own fist while they can't even design a good pistol for two decades now

Apt summary of the situation yes.

Aren't the Rhino coming with HE ammo? You don't really need HEAT or APHE to defeat relatively thin armor.

It is described as utilizing APHE against tanks. And while the Moskurgian APHE isn't actually APHE as used by everyone else, it shouldn't make it anymore efficient.

(Adding an explosive on the bottom of an AP shell is only good to blast shrapnel back into your own face. It won't make the round go any faster, as the explosive dissipates too easily.)

[Sheb]

I still don't get what happened to LSP. When you look at his first posts, he was using capital letter and punctuation!

[Sensei]

I stand by my notion that an AP/APHE recoilless rifle is not a completely absurd, physics-defying monstrosity. I think that is a misconception.

Having done some more digging around the 1940 German LG40 is a recoiless rifle which fires 7.5cm rounds, and those rounds are the same ones used in artillery guns, much like the Moskurg Rhino/Hippo. It is bigger- both the rounds are bigger, and it weighs on the order of more than a hundred pounds rather than thirty or so (but it didn't usually blow up). It relied on a more moden system of only expelling gas, and not shooting any ballast out the back. I have from this source, page 9, the first data I could find on LG40 armor penetration, that it could penetrate 100mm of armor (no range given) or 45mm of armor at a 30 degree angle. Again, much like the Rhino, it uses AP/APHE rounds not originally designed for RR use. Obviously the Rhino must perform considerably worse than this, for what it is, but that is an example of a recoilless rifle which can penetrate reasonable armor without HEAT rounds.

Therefore, I think the notion that the Rhino's performance is physically impossible is incorrect. The armor on a T25, if we must compare it to real thicknesses, is somewhere between 25 and 50mm. A gun like the LG40 with a smaller round and less muzzle velocity could reasonably penetrate 50mm at close to medium range, with a square hit.