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[Ultimuh]

So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

What we have, is theoretical fact.

[BurnedToast]

Personally I think it's much more likely that they didn't want to discount the game for the summer sale since it's so new, but they also realized if they don't discount it (or only give it a token discount) then they won't sell very many copies

So they come up with this as a way to offer a 25% discount without losing money, any effect on refunds is probably a happy (for them) unintended consequence.

Of course there's no way to be sure, but refunds don't seem like they would be a huge deal for something like GTA5 compared to the sale issue.

Edit: also you can apparently spend $100 cash money dollars and get 8 million ingame dollars, what the actual fuck? Who would ever do that?

[nenjin]

It'd be a new trend then. New releases around sale time have so far boldly not dropped prices. It's usually been a sign to me that someone is in trouble financially. More than likely it'd be a combination of both things: a way to discount a newly released game during the sale without outright dropping the price.....and a way to make refunds impossible.

[BigD145]

Edit: also you can apparently spend $100 cash money dollars and get 8 million ingame dollars, what the actual fuck? Who would ever do that?

Rich asshole stock brokers with no time.

[Darkmere]

So if baseless speculation is all we have, we might as well treat it like fact.

... Permission to sig this, cap'n?

[penguinofhonor]

absolutely

[BurnedToast]

It'd be a new trend then. New releases around sale time have so far boldly not dropped prices. It's usually been a sign to me that someone is in trouble financially. More than likely it'd be a combination of both things: a way to discount a newly released game during the sale without outright dropping the price.....and a way to make refunds impossible.

Does it actually make refunds impossible?

The refund FAQ says:

"DLC purchased from the Steam store is refundable within fourteen days of purchase, and if the underlying title has been played for less than two hours since the DLC was purchased, so long as the DLC has not been consumed, modified or transferred. Please note that in some cases, Steam will be unable to give refunds for some third party DLC (for example, if the DLC irreversibly levels up a game character). These exceptions will be clearly marked as nonrefundable on the Store page prior to purchase."

(bolding added by me)

It does not say the game is non-refundable on the store page, also when I add it to my cart it does not say it is non-refundable anywhere.

I'm not willing to buy it and then refund it to be absolutely, 100% sure but from what I can tell, refunds will still work since it's not labeled at all. If the purpose was to stop refunds, they did it stupidly.

Thus I'm even more sure it's just a way to give 25% off without actually giving 25% off.

[Vilanat]

Good thing you didn't test purchase it because the fine folks at steam are reporting that the bundle is indeed non-refundable through the automatic refund system. you can still manually request a refund but good luck with that, especially during a summer sale where the steam support is completely flooded.

[ncbousfield]

Got to try the new refund system for my steaming load of H1Z1. Bought it several months ago and only played 2.5 hours. Submitted a request and got it back quick, I was really surprised for getting it all back. I actually got a refund a long time ago with the WarZ crap. I guess I like the genre of horrible zombie games.

[forsaken1111]

I just went through my entire library refunding disappointing or outright shitty games. I did this to test out the refund system, specifically how far back you could ACTUALLY get a refund for. I successfully refunded a game purchased 8 months ago, so that's a thing. I also refunded one, as a test, which I had 20 hours played in and was now on sale. They approved it and gave me the lower price. I didn't much care but it was interesting to see what would happen.

So yeah, the limitations in the refund policy are more like guidelines and for now at least you can get some refunds for games bought quite a while ago.

[Retropunch]

I'm wondering if certain games are sorta 'auto-refunded' if they're known to be terrible. It wouldn't surprise me if Steam had a list of undesirables which they'll refund you even if you've played them more or had for a long time.

That being said, I do think they should stay within strict limits. As much as I think refunds are an absolute right, I'd hate to think that loads of people will get 20 hours into a game and then just refund it after they've finished with it.
I mean, I'd say that any game that you've put 20 hours in MUST have been good enough not to warrant a refund.

[forsaken1111]

I was denied one refund where I had 120 hours in a game.

But this was because the game would crash to desktop but leave the process running invisibly, so Steam thought it was still running and hours counted up until I rebooted my computer or something. Realistically I probably played the game for 10 minutes or so.

[Kruniac]

Edit - Puppygames have published a blog post "addressing" the graphs and their opinion
http://www.puppygames.net/blog/?p=1708#more-1708

I don't know if he's right or wrong, if he's got a good point or if he's just whining.

All I know is he is a condescending douche and I want him to fail because... seriously wtf. He's somehow arguing that he wants to sell less copies of his game because fans suck and he wants less of them? But he also somehow feels entitled to charging way more for his games because they are just that good despite the fact that around 50% of people like them so much they want refunds?

If I actually owned any puppygames games I'd try and get a refund out of spite. I wouldn't really, I'm not that petty of a person

I mean.. the guy makes shitty games. That's basically all there is to the story.

The idea behind shitty games is that you get someone's money and then you give them the shitty game. You keep their money, they keep the shitty game. This provides a way to screw with that.

I do agree that a large portion of modern gamers are absolute shit and wouldn't know a quality game if it sat on their face. They are the "shiny" people who get star struck for 4 hours then get tired of a game. But hey, they get to brag to their friends about how much of a gamer they are because <X> just came out and they bought it immediately, right? Those are the people you don't want to "demo" your game.

However, the fact still remains that there are tons of shitty games out there. There are tons of buggy games out there. There are tons of developers who could give a fuck less about providing a quality gaming experience and instead raking in the pre-orders/EAs/Kickstarters/Sales and then running extremely quickly to the next engine/dev environment session to repeat the process.

It's for that reason that we need a refund policy. Yes, some devs are going to be hurt by shit gamers who want a refund because they couldn't customize their character's tattoos. However, there is also Chivalry. A shit game. We need refunds for those games.

[Chiefwaffles]

Okay, sorry for being off-topic, but wow:

I do agree that a large portion of modern gamers are absolute shit and wouldn't know a quality game if it sat on their face.

Who are you to judge? People like different games. Just because you don't like the same games doesn't mean they're automatically horrible and disgusting for not agreeing with you. Let people enjoy their games while you enjoy yours. Why do you care what they like to play?
Seriously. Why so negative?

[Boltgun]

I was denied one refund where I had 120 hours in a game.

But this was because the game would crash to desktop but leave the process running invisibly, so Steam thought it was still running and hours counted up until I rebooted my computer or something. Realistically I probably played the game for 10 minutes or so.

You can try contacting the steam support because you are probably not the only one in this case and when many players with no connection report the same thing it becomes obvious it's not bs.

Okay, sorry for being off-topic, but wow:

I do agree that a large portion of modern gamers are absolute shit and wouldn't know a quality game if it sat on their face.

Who are you to judge? People like different games. Just because you don't like the same games doesn't mean they're automatically horrible and disgusting for not agreeing with you. Let people enjoy their games while you enjoy yours. Why do you care what they like to play?
Seriously. Why so negative?

It's the negativity that irks me, people buy something and enjoy it. Gamers buy their games at -75% and then talk about buyer remorse, complain it's not 1080p 60FPS, then attack the devs as if they were responsible of all the wrong in this world.

That's why a refund program anywhere else is seen at progress but ehre the first thing we think about is how it will be abused. We could do without this trust crisis.