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[Flying Dice]

See, that's not at all what I got from 3. I saw it as this:

Fallout 3 worked AND had stats. Want to shoot better? Get more skill.

with the disclaimer that it was fucking horribly implemented, and crippled by other things like the terrible draw-distance and disappearing bullets. If we had a system like FO3's, except in which above 90-95 skill your shots always went where you aimed (barring recoil), the draw-distance was much longer, and bullets/lasers/whatever didn't stop until they hit something or left the (much longer) draw distance? I'd love that.

The notion of "higher skill = less deviation from the barrel line" was a good compromise between two fairly different setups (moreso than Borderlands, where skills don't really touch accuracy), but as above it fell apart in implementation such that most weapons didn't work at all beyond ~75-80m.

NV almost made it worse, because they had so many scoped long range weapons but everything was basically invisible/invulnerable farther than 100-200m away.

4's shooting fuckups are different: they "fixed" the compromise by removing it and going pretty much pure (mediocre-quality) FPS, but they screwed up massively on weapon balance.

[Krevsin]

The shooting in FO3 was only dependent on your skills when in VATS. It worked like a generic-but-terrible FPS outside it. I have played through NV and FO3 while using vats for pretty much nothing and I managed to do it just fine.

[NullForceOmega]

True for NV, but in 3 your accuracy outside of VATS was also impacted heavily by your skills, if you had low skill the weapon would shake everywhere, and the CoF* was much larger, if you had high skill then the shake was severely mitigated and the CoF was reduced as well.

*Cone of Fire

[SOLDIER First]

restarted fallout 4 on pc. holy fuck why does it run so choppily
this is a gaming laptop
;-;

[NullForceOmega]

It is choppy because Bethesda made no real effort to optimize the program, it looks worse on low settings than F3 does on Xbox.

[SOLDIER First]

i cant run anything higher than low at reasonable framerate, this is hell
even mgsv on max settings runs better

[Rolan7]

The wiki says that skill reduces sway in NV as well.
And as an aside, if you don't meet the STR requirement for a gun in NV it will be inaccurate as hell.  I tried using the anti-materiel rifle with like 3 STR... utterly unusable.  Which is fine, even a good thing.

PER is so useless in FO4...  As a rifle-user I only needed 2.  The next useful one isn't until 9 (Penetration).  Yeah it affects VATS accuracy, but my percentages are usually 80+ at reasonable range anyway (and there's so much cover it's usually not hard to approach).

... Oh wow, wiki confirmed my suspicion:  It no longer affects enemies showing up on the compass.  They do that if and only if they're alerted.  I keep getting disappointed by this game.  Still going to finish it, since the plot and characters are okay and it's a decent FPS shooter, but wow it's an awful Fallout.

[Flying Dice]

It is choppy because Bethesda made no real effort to optimize the program, it looks worse on low settings than F3 does on Xbox.

It's telling that all of the general texture mods I've seen on the Nexus thus far have been optimizations of the vanilla textures rather than high-res packs.

[Sirbug]

Eh, Fallout never had good combat balance and probably never will because of so many things to balance. At least it's easy and not prohibitively hard. Just there to keep me focused.

[Neonivek]

Eh, Fallout never had good combat balance and probably never will because of so many things to balance. At least it's easy and not prohibitively hard. Just there to keep me focused.

I don't think that is fair. It isn't that hard to balance, it just requires actual effort...

And not like... Skyrim balance effort (as in no effort)

Look, do you think they REALLY tried hard to make sure this game was balanced? Like... really? With like a lot of work and effort going into the balance but the options always broke it apart until they had to release the game as it is?

[Mech#4]

Maybe there's too much gear progression for how many tiers of enemies there are? I like if bandits become push overs but the game kind of goes; Bandits -> Mercenaries -> Super Mutants -> Enclave/Whatever with animals a parallel progression. Weapons are, what, batons on one end and mini-nuke launchers on the other? It shouldn't be one to one but Fallout doesn't have that many enemies to choose from before you start having to make new ones up.

What could be a new enemy above Super Mutants or Power Armour wearing enemies?

[Flying Dice]

Obviously power-armored Deathclaws ridden by Super Mutants.

[Sirbug]

Eh, Fallout never had good combat balance and probably never will because of so many things to balance. At least it's easy and not prohibitively hard. Just there to keep me focused.

I don't think that is fair. It isn't that hard to balance, it just requires actual effort...

And not like... Skyrim balance effort (as in no effort)

Look, do you think they REALLY tried hard to make sure this game was balanced? Like... really? With like a lot of work and effort going into the balance but the options always broke it apart until they had to release the game as it is?

You can't reasonably account to all the guns and melee stuff player character can have or fail to have at any given spot. It's physically impossible.

[TheBronzePickle]

The wiki says that skill reduces sway in NV as well.
And as an aside, if you don't meet the STR requirement for a gun in NV it will be inaccurate as hell.  I tried using the anti-materiel rifle with like 3 STR... utterly unusable.  Which is fine, even a good thing.

There's a massive difference in 'sway' and the cone of fire in Fallout 3.

With NV, as long as you're aiming you can still see where the gun's pointing. Yeah, it'll move back and forth as per 'sway', but if your sights are lined up on target when you pull the trigger, you're going to hit it.
In 3, the sniper rifle, which is one of the few guns you can use the sights on, would commonly miss after you took the time to line up a shot because the bullet would not go where the sights pointed to, at least at lower Small Guns skill.

[Krevsin]

True for NV, but in 3 your accuracy outside of VATS was also impacted heavily by your skills, if you had low skill the weapon would shake everywhere, and the CoF* was much larger, if you had high skill then the shake was severely mitigated and the CoF was reduced as well.

*Cone of Fire

Wrong, your weapon moved and swayed in NV.

In FO3 the game just arbitrarily decided that you missed without giving you any indication, as there was no real iron sights system in place. And like I said, the shooting worked just fine outside of VATS even if you didn't invest into the gun skills.