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[Bohandas]

 

Those must've been some fucked up cartoons you watched. To me, the Enclave is much more cartoon evil than the Legion.

The Legion were just a little bit too over-the-top evil. The roman empire thing was a bit too gimmicky.

In-world though the Enclave is theoretically equally ridiculous and gimmicky, given that the United States has been defunct for 200 years as of the beginning of Fallout 3. They are, however, still less evil than the Legion.

[GiglameshDespair]

I'd definitely be interested in a more verdant post-apocalyptic environment. Endless forest with the hulking ruins of skyscapers peeking out.

Oh, and here's a Fallout History Lesson for those who are interested.

Enslaved: Odyssey to the West, while an average game, had some really nice overgrown, ruined cities.

[UXLZ]

It's the engine, but it has nothing to do with it being good for mods, it's just that NPCs (and creatures) take up loads and loads of memory. That they keep trying to make every single unimportant NPC more detailed is just exasperating the problem.

I see, but the NPCs still look like crap without modding them anyway. >_>

[scriver]

 

Those must've been some fucked up cartoons you watched. To me, the Enclave is much more cartoon evil than the Legion.

The Legion were just a little bit too over-the-top evil. The roman empire thing was a bit too gimmicky.

In-world though the Enclave is theoretically equally ridiculous and gimmicky, given that the United States has been defunct for 200 years as of the beginning of Fallout 3. They are, however, still less evil than the Legion.

I wasn't saying they're less evil, but they are less cartoonishly evil.

[Virtz]

 

Those must've been some fucked up cartoons you watched. To me, the Enclave is much more cartoon evil than the Legion.

The Legion were just a little bit too over-the-top evil. The roman empire thing was a bit too gimmicky.

In-world though the Enclave is theoretically equally ridiculous and gimmicky, given that the United States has been defunct for 200 years as of the beginning of Fallout 3. They are, however, still less evil than the Legion.

I wasn't saying they're less evil, but they are less cartoonishly evil.

Not really. At least the Legion (and the Master) wanted to unite everyone under their banner. Like surrender was an option with them (although not a great one if female, in the case of the Legion). The Enclave is just "CLEANSE PURGE KILL" nazis who want to wipe out everyone who isn't them, which is the majority of Earth's remaining population, including most of the former USA. Like which one do you think had the more realistic goal in mind? The ones who wanted to wipe everything out or the ones who wanted to conquer everything?

[scriver]

It's not about "realistic goal". The Legion is a group of evil bastards who is consistently depicted as raping, killing,torturing, and genociding nearly everyone they come across. It's hardly an villain fit for a children's cartoon.

[Teneb]

It's not about "realistic goal". The Legion is a group of evil bastards who is consistently depicted as raping, killing,torturing, and genociding nearly everyone they come across. It's hardly an villain fit for a children's cartoon.

Hasn't it been established in this thread (or the NV one, don't remember) already that the Legion is pretty in-line with what some ancient cultures (though only a little of what they do, like decimation, was done by the romans) did?

The Legion is not so much cartoonish as shallow due to having most of their content axed because of an idiotic deadline. If Obsidian could've taken as much time as they wanted with NV, they'd probably be more fleshed out. Still horrifyingly brutal, but not being cardboard cutouts.

[Virtz]

Sounds like Ancient Rome mixed with feudal Europe. Can't see why that wouldn't happen in a post-apocalyptic scenario where certain societies have already devolved into tribalism.

Also, you're comparing them to a faction that does some real cartoony shit in FO3. They kill your dad right in front of you! And they have a giant underground base. Which they escape in helicopters as it self-destructs like fucking Doctor Robotnik. And they've got president Malcolm McDowell! The go-to actor for evil guys. Even in FO2 they had a giant mutant guy who existed only to kill civilians in front of you in a random cutscene. And their end-goal in both games was an attempt at one-upping Nazis in stupidity. Like this is the real cartoony mad scientist bullshit.

[SealyStar]

It's not about "realistic goal". The Legion is a group of evil bastards who is consistently depicted as raping, killing,torturing, and genociding nearly everyone they come across. It's hardly an villain fit for a children's cartoon.

The phrases "cartoon villain" and "cartoonishly evil" generally aren't used to suggest that the villain's actions are cartoonish - in fact, most villains described as such do things like raping, killing, torturing, and genociding. Instead, they're meant as criticisms of the writing quality, namely the villain's motivations.

A "cartoon villain" is evil not because evil actions benefit the villain in some way, or because they're seriously unapologetic psychopaths or sadists, but simply because they're The Villain and they have to do Villainous Things.

[BFEL]

I think what makes Legion seem so cartoonishly evil is the simple fact that they weren't SUPPOSED to be. They were intended to be much more fleshed out and realistic, but were axed into cartoon territory because reasons.

Meanwhile the Enclave never pretended to not be Skeletor, they fully embraced it the whole way while laughing maniacally. And that kinda goes past most peoples radars because Refuge In Audacity and all that.

Basically the Legion's baby roflstomping feels...wrong, while the Enclave's is like watching a cartoon, its so detached from reality its hard to take its evil seriously.

[Wimopy]

I just realised how similar The Pitt's endng choice is to the NCR vs Legion one (if you disregard the other options). Temporary slavery then proper civilisation or a head on approach to civilisation, which may just fall apart.

Anyways, here's a hope for FO4: NPCs recognizing that they shouldn't badmouth the guy in front of them. The Trouble on the Homefront quest in full power armour and an LMG had me wanting to just blow up the damn place, but I didn't, simply because of my respect for Amata. And my character is "very good".
Back to topic: any info whether there might be such a system? Skyrim's guards weren't exactly nice to the Thane all the time, but a mod fixed that, so maybe it'll be in this time?

[Sergius]

Not exactly super-important news, but it seems the freakin' casual Shelter game is coming out for android in about a month.

[KingofstarrySkies]

squee

[forsaken1111]

Not exactly super-important news, but it seems the freakin' casual Shelter game is coming out for android in about a month.

Cool. I'll play it. My wife seems to like it.

[Flying Dice]

I just realised how similar The Pitt's endng choice is to the NCR vs Legion one (if you disregard the other options). Temporary slavery then proper civilisation or a head on approach to civilisation, which may just fall apart.

The problem with both being that the former option's faction is held together by a single personality who at best claims to be moving in that direction, and even if they're not lying it's not something that'll happen in their lifetime, which effectively means it won't happen at all.