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[umiman]

coded evil... what the fuck...

[Putnam]

I'm guessing in the sense that the raiders in FO3 are coded evil and you get good karma for killing them.

But I'm also pretty sure they removed that entirely in Skyrim.

[Neonivek]

Kind of reminds me of Skyrim where they botch the storyline so badly that honestly the Imperials, in spite being coded evil, were in fact the good guys.

I am 90% sure the Imperials are not "coded evil"...

Well think of it this way
1) They are the "Empire" and have it right in their name and are fighting "Rebels" and "Natives"
2) They have a legion of faceless uniformed soldiers who while they don't have helmets that completely cover their faces, partially do so.
3) They have superior resources and wealth AKA the Overdogs.
4) They are overseen by a large evil organization that watches from the shadows
5)  and right at the start of the game they try to kill you... and the second thing you see them do is kill someone else.
6) They do not have a legitimate right to rule and are enforcing their laws onto a country that by all means has their own methods of teaching things
7) I THINK they also outlaw cults... but that could be the other side.

I honestly believe they wanted the Imperials to be "the bad guys" of Skyrim and just botched their storytelling and made them by far the most likable faction (Mostly by making the other faction kind of... insanely genocidal)

In the same way that the Caesar's Empire was meant to be "Primitive but legitimate"... but they botched it by presenting you to them in only the most vile ways only to go "Opps well uhhh, we have no idea what that was"

Yeah Bethesda aren't great storytellers...

[Arbinire]

(removed)

[FArgHalfnr]

Speaking of karma, I hope that if they choose to keep it they will improve it a lot. It's almost impossible to play as an evil character in FO3, and even if you manage to do so, the mechanics will force you to play as a stereotypical card-carrying villain with no purpose in life other than causing as much harm as possible without having any concern over the consequence of your acts. That and I want to be able to join whoever are the bad guys

[Neonivek]

(removed)

I am actually fine with this. I like both Fallout 3 and New Vegas (I just thing Fallout 3 gets a bad rap that might make people overlook some of the things the game actually did right and thus make the series go stagnant)

And maybe Bioshock Infinite was a great 'game' but it certainly wasn't a good 'story'... and I am not quite sure how anyone could defend it on even the most basic level beyond "Ohh you have to turn your brain off and completely ignore it"

Fallout 4 is probably going to be good all things considered. We are just hoping it does better then the usual "Alright" gameplay and storytelling we usually get.

[ShoesandHats]

Why are people comparing the actual game at this point to Bioshock Infinite? Sure, the two seem to have pretty similar visuals, but we have no actual idea what the gameplay will be like. We can assume it'll be similar to the last two Fallout games, and that's almost certainly going to be the case, but none of the Fallout games have really been that similar in terms of gameplay to Bioshock. Bioshock is arcadey with certain RPG elements, Fallout is an open-world RPG.

Speaking of the art style, was anyone else concerned at first that it would be an MMO just seeing the way it looked? You have to admit, the style does make it look a little WoW-like. Obviously, though, if it were an MMO it would be called Fallout Online instead of 4.

[MasterFancyPants]

I'm noticing that a lot of the people hatejerking(love that) in this thread are also the same people who defend even worse practices and implementations in 'indie' games in other threads.  We get it, you hate AAA games, and will nitpick every single one that comes out.  Loosen the fedora, it's not the end of the world if others of us enjoy them.

And Bioshock Infinite was a great game.

Look out, super cool football player. No one here would be nitpicking Fallout is they didn't enjoy the games and the fact that Beth saved the series.
Would you rather we say, "Fallout 3 and NV had absolutely zero problems. I should be grateful that Beth takes my money in exchange for a service, the quality of that service doesn't matter."

TL;DR: No one is "hatejerking", they are criticizing flaws they see in the games.

[Putnam]

...Yes, any criticism is automatically being decried as hatejerking there, and the most reasonable way to respond to people criticizing others' post habits is to go to the other extreme as if there is no middle ground

[Shadowlord]

Personally, I've never played Bioshock Infinite (or any of the other Bioshock games). They didn't sound particularly interesting.

Spoiler: This entire thing is a giant derail, but I replied to Neonivek (click to show/hide)

Well think of it this way
1) They are the "Empire" and have it right in their name and are fighting "Rebels" and "Natives"

I don't really think that every Empire is automatically evil, and every Rebel and Native is automatically good...

The USA would probably count as an Empire today.

2) They have a legion of faceless uniformed soldiers who while they don't have helmets that completely cover their faces, partially do so.

So basically all knights, anyone who wore helmets at any time, fighter pilots, and of course, let's not forget astronauts.

3) They have superior resources and wealth AKA the Overdogs.

So anyone matching #2 from the USA has three strikes against them now.

4) They are overseen by a large evil organization that watches from the shadows

What large evil organization? What.

5)  and right at the start of the game they try to kill you... and the second thing you see them do is kill someone else.

From their point of view, you had just made an illegal border crossing at the exact point where Ulfric Stormcloak and his men were waiting, undoubtedly to meet you...

6) They do not have a legitimate right to rule and are enforcing their laws onto a country that by all means has their own methods of teaching things

You've been listening to Stormcloak propaganda, haven't you? The Empire has been ruling Skyrim for ages. If Ulfric Stormcloak wants to rule instead, he has to prove that he'll be a better ruler. Of course, he can't, because he's a racist megalomaniac, leading a pack of racist thugs, and worst of all, he's in the pocket of the Thalmor, who are using him to weaken Skyrim (and hopefully divide it from the Empire).

7) I THINK they also outlaw cults... but that could be the other side.

Eh?

I honestly believe they wanted the Imperials to be "the bad guys" of Skyrim and just botched their storytelling and made them by far the most likable faction (Mostly by making the other faction kind of... insanely genocidal)

I don't think either the Imperials or Stormcloaks are supposed to be particularly likeable in Skyrim. You're supposed to start out thinking the Stormcloaks are good guys, but if you visit their cities, look around, talk to people, and listen to them, you'll see that they are pretty much racist jerks who want to fight a civil war just because the Imperials were forced to sign away the right to worship Talos in a humiliating treaty. And instead of fighting the Thalmor / Aldmeri Dominion, who imposed the treaty, they fight the Imperials, because (a) they're jerks, or (b) the Thalmor has Ulfric in its pocket (you find proof during the main quest).

In the same way that the Caesar's Empire was meant to be "Primitive but legitimate"... but they botched it by presenting you to them in only the most vile ways only to go "Opps well uhhh, we have no idea what that was"

Yeah Bethesda aren't great storytellers...

The books and/or* conversations in F:NV reveal that "Caesar" deliberately modeled the Legion on the Roman Empire, with the sadism and brutality fully intentional. He felt it was the best way to build a strong nation in the wasteland environment. Also, you do know that Bethesda didn't make New Vegas, right?

* It's been years since I've played it, so I don't remember whether I read it in a book, or if Caesar specifically told me. Before I assassinated him.

Edit: Typos and stuff.

[Putnam]

I think they were referring to the Thalmor, which is a pretty big misunderstanding of what exactly the Thalmor is doing with the Empire, not to mention that it's pretty explicitly said in-game during one of the main quest missions that Ulfric is also being overseen by the Thalmor.

[Rakonas]

I think they were referring to the Thalmor, which is a pretty big misunderstanding of what exactly the Thalmor is doing with the Empire, not to mention that it's pretty explicitly said in-game during one of the main quest missions that Ulfric is also being overseen by the Thalmor.

Ulfric is being overseen by the Thalmor the same way Lenin was being overseen by the German Empire. They just released him knowing that he'd start trouble in order to foment civil war, so they could pick up the pieces. All they want is for conflict to ignite and continue indefinitely. Really it makes no sense to in one breath condemn the stormcloaks as being genocidal racists and in the next claim that they're working for the Thalmor.

The Empire actually kneeled to the Aldmeri Dominion and banned all worship of Talos, the most important god for the Nords and arguably any actual Imperial. The Thalmor are obviously the antagonists of the game (unfortunately for anyone who wants to be a racist altmer) and the Empire's strategy for dealing with them is inferior considering the success of Hammerfell alone in defeating the Dominion.

[Putnam]

I love how the Nords went to war with the Empire over rights to worship a Breton.

[scriver]

*A Breton, an Imperial, and an ancient evil spirit

But yes, I think the Imperial-Bluecloak conflict was one of the parts of Skyrim Beth did good with (setting-/plot-wise, at least, not the quest content relating to it). It is clearly set up to be revealed to you that the real enemies are the Thalmor, and that siding with the Imperials is the only real way of fighting back against them - Bluecloaks getting control over Skyrim and seceding from the Empire will only leave both Empire and Skyrim weaker.

As for the Empire being "coded" evil... Neonivek, you take that stuff way to literal.

[Putnam]

Hey, now. Ysmir Wulfharth ain't evil.

Talos is Hjalti Early-Beard (a breton Dragonborn, also known as Talos Stormcrown), Zurin Arctus (an imperial or maybe tsaesci, also known as the Underking) and Ysmir Wulfharth (probably a nord, definitely Shezzarine, powerful tongue also known as the Stormcrown and maybe Underking--yeah, I know). Suffice to say he's weird.

wow this is a tangent let's talk about something more relevant