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[SOLDIER First]

Investigation is (to my knowledge) looking for evidence of... something, as opposed to just looking for something.
Which makes no sense, but.. I guess it's DM's choice?

[GiglameshDespair]

I'd say investigate is also being able to translate what you see into meaningful information.

[highmax28]

My DM is using investigation checks instead of perception checks to look through piles of stuff for anything useful. I thought that was a perception check?

[SOLDIER First]

Apparently, Investigation is indeed detective-style evidence gathering. Your DM probably got confused by the undescriptive name.

[Dorsidwarf]

Yeah, Perception tells you that there's a smudge on the wall.

Investigation tells you that the smudge is identical to the smudge at the last crime scene and that for the smudge to have been left the smudger would have had to stand in a certain spot and that you should look there for bootprints.

[Jimmy]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So I've started playing a game of D&D with an animator on youtube I watch. He originally asked me to DM, but took it up for himself because he's never done it before and wanted to try. I decided to roll with Carver Spellmeyer, the arrogant wizard, and we have, in our party, Dragg the horny bard, Wilneas the snobby noble cleric, and <insert name> the dragonborn barbarian ((he has yet to show up for a session)). we've been doing this on roll20 since we're all over the place, and its my first time actually using it properly, so its been quite the experience. We're playing 5e, so its nothing too broken. But apparently, my talk of how good I can be playing (such as tell him about my previous ordeals as Cliff Whitefang the dwarf thrower and so on) he decided to add on a bit of difficulty.

So we started the game with a very awkward conversation between me, Dragg and Wilneas while the barbarian sleeps, which involved them talking about how my familiar just defeated a fish that the DM said was an epic battle, but because me and the bard weren't looking, and the cleric was below deck (he came up because he heard the fish battle) we talked up a bit, and then the cleric starts calling us commoners already.

I tell the bard where I'm going and then proceed to, as my character would do, go down the road to the next town. The cleric follows me because he doesn't want to travel alone and the bard is following me because he thinks I'm his friend. I proceeded to question why they were following me the whole time, and while that happened, we ran into a group of mercenaries, called Los Gayapos Payosos, who were convinced that the bard was named Wally and that he was wanted. Despite telling them that Dragg was not the man he was looking for, I cast Charm Person on the leader and actually managed to convince him then that he wasn't Wally, pretty much skipping the first encounter due to how adamant he was (going as far as to rebuke our remark of saying he wasn't wally by saying "That's what Wally WOULD have said!" and then threatening me and the cleric. Due to the DM's disappointment, he hinted we will be seeing them again)

We make it to town, and my character has to get a key from the bartender. While I'm waiting for him to not be busy, the cleric goes to try and talk to a crazy old man and the bard tries to talk to the seductive woman in the corner. She proceeds to insult his manhood, which causes him to talk to the only other woman in the place, and I'm watching this all take place laughing.

I explain to the bartender that I need the key that he has in order to continue my quest to find my teacher, and that I've been followed by the "two jesters: the snob and the fool" and immediately, the cleric hears me and comes over angrily, attempts to intimidate me by saying "Excuse me, but was there something you wanted to tell me, you uncultured swine?" and gets a 17 on the roll and I roll a 21 as my own save, which caused me to turn around to him, look him dead in the eye and say "I apologize. I've been followed by two JESTERS today, so you can tell my mood is not at its best", which causes him to go COMPLETELY flustered and flash his signet ring and say he's nobility. I then tell him I was a wizard trained by perhaps one of the best wizards in all the land and that his sign of nobility holds no meaning to me. He gets more and more flustered at that and he tells me to hold my tongue and, because he is a half elf, I am trying SO HARD to not drop the racist remarks since not many people like half-elves by calling him a half-breed, so instead, I say to him "What would a High and Mighty snob such as yourself do to me, break a fingernail?" and he just loses it, causing him to draw his weapon and the barkeep breaking up the fight by giving us a discount of drinks. We both order some wine and I roast him again for drinking it right from the bottle when I drink from a glass by saying "sophisticated as always". I also at this point ask for that key and he goes off to get it.

So Wilneas gets drunk and passes out downing the whole bottle and the bard proceeds to talk to the lady, who tells him about a local goblin problem and that her friend has went missing and if he's dead, she wants something to remember him by. So the bard agrees without hesitation and asks me to come along, with the promise of getting paid. I tell him that now I have my key, I have no real reason to stay here, but if I'm getting paid, I have no reason to disagree. The barkeep overhears this and comes up and tells us that it was funny I should mention the goblins because they stole my key that morning. Carver just looks at the bartender with a sharp look of disapproval and facepalms as he realizes that NOW it has become his problem.

Bard wakes up the cleric, I find out he's a lightweight and I steal his coinpurse and give it to the bartender for safekeeping when he agrees to join us and passes out again after I give him more booze... And buy ourselves three rooms at his expense.

Next morning and one hangover later (and giving the cleric his money back), we set off to the goblins, and we start our first real encounter off smoothly: the cleric tries to stealth into the room and rolls a 2, causing all four goblins to turn and attack him. Before he even gets a turn, the cleric is dropped to 0 by the four goblins. The bard kills one and I have to keep the cleric alive, so I can't attack the cluster of goblins with burning hands effectively, so I cast sleep and knock out two of the three goblins (one of which was trying to sound an alarm). The last goblin attacks me and ruins my nice robes (as the DM put it) and then I kill him using magic missile and almost kill another goblin. By now, the cleric has failed two death saves and has one more save. We literally cheered when it came up 16, because that means he didn't die yet and we ended the encounter. I proceed to try and medicine check him, but everything is stacked against us I see as me and the bard failed our stabilize checks. The DM was nice enough to say that we get him back up afterwards, because we did a "what if" roll and found out that the cleric would have died if he was given another roll.

We proceed down to another corridor and hear a goblin in a room where he's grumbling angrily to himself and the cleric, again, tries to sneak in and falls flat on his face as he fumbles. The goblin in the room just turns and looks at him and ignores him, cleaning more skulls. I start talking to him and he's convinced, in his feeling of worthlessness as a goblin, I convince him to get a better job, and the cleric takes it upon himself to hire the goblin to carry his stuff, to which the goblin agrees.

We go into the next room, which is the final room, and everyone fails miserably except me again, with me taking out two goblins on my own and the bard killing another after fumbling a stealth roll and announcing he was coming in by slamming the door open. I get dropped to 1hp again, ruining my clothing more (I told my DM that the next cantrip I'm getting is mending) and the cleric heals me. The goblin buddy we made, kills one of the goblins himself before I cast burning hands, and then he proceeds to kill the goblin leader and stab him over and over for bullying him and treating him like garbage.

So in the end, I find my key, we bury the girl's friend, find his ring and some gems, about 100 silver and a magical fragile scimitar.

We head back to the tavern and Dragg immediately goes over to the woman who insulted him earlier and says "WHO'S THE MAN NOW!? I DEALT WITH THE GOBLINS!" and I use minor illusion to spell out the words NOT THIS GUY over his head, which caused the woman to give me a smile and a giggle, and then gives the bard another shot, even though he completely ignores her after that.

So, overall, probably the worst "first encounter" I've ever had to fix, got a goblin buddy who's apparently going to become a first level goblin fighter (since he did most of the work in the second encounter with me) as what the DM is thinking, and a very enjoyable game overall. Its great to finally be in a game without having a min maxer or someone mad at me for my backstory

Sounds like everyone had fun. You're all playing to your class stereotypes, but that's not a bad thing. If there's one thing I'd recommend it's that you try to encourage team cooperation rather than antagonize everyone else. Friendly ribbing is fine, but when players are constantly spending the game at each other's throats, it quickly leads to the party splitting. For example, the bard might make a big show of pretending to be the nobleman cleric's herald, announcing his arrival before he enters the room, singing his praises in song whenever he uses bardic music, and informing any attractive young women looking to gain the hand of a nobleman that he's responsible for testing the quality of any prospective brides in the bedroom. I typically try to foster the feeling in any game I play that it's the players vs. the DM, not other players.

The other thing I hope doesn't end up happening is that the goblin you've recruited ends up becoming a Mary-Sue DMNPC. Having an NPC in the party is a great way for the DM to introduce story hooks and give out relevant information when needed, but they should never replace the role of a PC character. It sounds like the DM intends to turn this goblin into a cohort with PC class levels. It would be far better to have it take an NPC class such as Warrior if such a thing exists yet in this system.

[highmax28]

So far, it's a standard goblin boss.


And it's mostly in good fun, and I don't try to argue too much, but we do fuck with each other. I know my wizard is supposed to be arrogant, but I know these are real people, and this is a party we have to deal with. So far, it's been a case of "crap, NOW I'm involved" which is slowly becoming "ok, we work pretty well together"

My only gripe is me and the bard rolled a nat 1 on the hit die on level up

[Kadzar]

(if you're a fighter, you're a walking weapon shop. Also, if you're an archer you wear leather)

Okay, you're going to have to explain what you mean by these. For the first one, I'm guessing you're saying fighters can use any weapon pretty well (though fighting-style tends to make people focus on a specific type in my experience). And nothing about playing any archer-build restricts you to wearing leather, except maybe if you're a pure rogue.

[Rolan7]

I want to try running a pathfinder game with my real life friends. I have all the pdfs from that humble bundle, but there's an issue in the way of 'How the fuck do I get them to my friend's house in a room without a computer and without me or my friends owning a laptop'

Anyone got any ideas? Printing's a little out of the picture, given the absurd size of the 'books' (Wish to God I could have got them in book form instead, but I guess that would have been expensive), and with the number/size of the files I'm not convinced we have enough room on our ipad.

I don't know very much about *Apple* mobile devices, but I'm seeing indications that you could use a cheap SD card.  Though you might need a USB SD card reader, it wasn't obvious.

[Jimmy]

Okay, another help request post!

I'm designing a quest chain, CR should be for party in the level 5-8 range. Premise is that they find an entrance to a multi-level labyrinth.

I'd love to hear some ideas from other people here about fun features, traps, encounters or other nifty stuff. Basically, I can look up level appropriate monsters or traps and put them in the maze, but that doesn't really make the whole thing very interesting as when there's a story behind the encounter.

Here's my ideas so far:

Entrance to labyrinth is a hedge maze. Inspiration image below:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I've got no current ideas for why the party would want to go into this maze yet, aside from the usual adventure hook fare. Either there's a magical MacGuffin somewhere inside the party wants, or some important NPC got lost inside. A few better ideas would be welcome.

Entrance is guarded, possibly by minotaur with indifferent attitude per diplomacy rules, with this NPC used to provide dialogue or warnings as appropriate if the party does not initiate combat, subject to diplomacy or intimidate.

Possibility exists for party with access to level 3 spells to have means of flight to bypass aboveground portion of maze completely, so either plan for this or have either incentive not to do so or reward for accomplishing this section without flight. Ideas here would be good. Possibility also exists for the party to simply cut a path through the maze, so having some form of discouragement to do so would be welcome.

Upper hedge maze can be populated with a variety of creatures such as animated objects or awakened plants, or even possibly fey creatures depending on the theme.

Large manor house/miniature castle at far end of maze could offer a few different options. Immediate thought is for it to be haunted, thus offering the possibility of undead leaking into the maze at night. Other options include some form of fey enchantment over the noble's household trapping them inside.

Lower labyrinth could be accessed through a variety of means, for example slay the four guardians, swim through the well at the maze centre, etc.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[SOLDIER First]

I don't have any ideas for anything else (except possibly having the entire dungeon be devoid of enemies, save the occasional floor mimic, just to fuck with them), but you could have the Magic MacGuffin be guarded by a [insert nigh-impossible-to-beat neutral creature] that gets mad at the party if they bypass the upper maze. Those who take the easy path are not worthy, after all.
But you might want to supplement with other loot if you do that, since they won't be happy about being screwed out of loot even if they don't deserve it.

[Jimmy]

Typically I try to have a quest chain with encounters starting 1 CR lower than the party level, building up to 1-2 CR higher for the final encounter. Then I include an additional 'danger room' encounter that can only be accessed after the main quest is complete and/or requires backtracking or considerable effort to reach, which is 3+ CRs higher than the party, with the explicit warning given to the PCs that this is extremely dangerous to attempt but also contains a very big optional bonus reward. They can choose to attempt it while underleveled, come back later to try when they're stronger, or skip it completely.

I think I've got an idea for the BBEG. A Blackwood Satyr has interrupted a noble's party and kidnapped several attractive women, descending into the labyrinth and placing them under his thrall. His spell-like abilities should give plenty of mechanical support to his actions, and provides a means for the group to rescue a grateful noble and get a hefty reward and NPC contact.

[Flying Dice]

Hm. If you can justify it with whatever you have planned to fill out the complement of living enemies, it might be interesting to do something not entirely unlike what SB suggested. Make the maze and manor more of a passive threat. Fill both with illusions designed to string the party out and lead them around fruitlessly. Work a subtle pattern into the illusions which, if they bother to investigate more closely, will give them hints on how to reach the center. Make the manor much the same, but with pit/magic traps that eject people who fall into them back out into the maze. Have at most a few weak enemies in the maze and upper levels of the manor.

Basically, that gives a reward for cleverness: if they traverse the maze honestly and thoughtfully, they'll be able to short-cut to the labyrinth without having to deal with the manor. The use of spirit-flavored undead is a good thought, that would mix well with the unease of a maze and manor full of annoying but not incredibly dangerous traps. If they fly over to the manor, make sure the hedges are high enough that they need to descend all the way from a high tower. If they do a Nanoha Bypass on the maze, they still have to enter the manor and find the main entrance to the labyrinth.

In other words, every reasonable approach, if done well, will result in an appropriate "reward" (in the sense of bypassing segments of the maze/manor component).

Once they're in the labyrinth, switch over to a more combat-oriented approach with challenging monsters and more dangerous traps.

As an additional bit of bonus fun, doing the maze and manor as that sort of mind-twisting haunted house bullshit means that the party gets to have fun (if you go with that hook) escorting the people they're there to rescue out of the maze. If you like, you can set things up so that the higher-tier encounter can be released if they're too destructive or poke their noses into it despite the warnings, turning it into a race to get the rescuees out. For flavor, maybe make it a much more powerful undead bound to a crypt beneath the manor, which explains why it doesn't keep chasing beyond the maze. That also leaves plenty of room for more plot hooks to flow out of if and when they come back to deal with it.

[highmax28]

You could start the quest by saying there's a disturbingly high amounts of magic emanating from the manor, and when approached from the sky, something tries to keep you away. The hedges are 30ft high with bramble in between them. They also take a long time to burn through due to how thick they are and the fact they are enchanted with abjuration spells that are dispelled once everything in the upper maze is killed.

The entrance guardian is a robed figure, with impossible to see facial features, who warns them about going in, and if they try to fly over with him there, he will cause a gravity-like ability where he forces them onto the ground before they reach the maze. He will say something is hidden under the manor and is sealed, and the party cannot turn back if they plan to go in and go too far. If the party still wishes to go in, he will test them in two ways: Mind and Body. He will ask two riddles, followed by a third one that involves him asking if the party will kill something knowing that what they were doing was their job. If the party answers yes or no, he will accept the answer. He will test their body by fighting the party, but don't give him an HP amount. Make him cause nothing but attacks that deal non-lethal damage (don't tell them its non-lethal) and knock out the party members one by one until half of the party is knocked out or until they retreat. If they retreat, he will heal the fallen and tell them to leave if they do not strengthen their resolve. If he defeats most of the party, he will let them in as he believes that they can stop whatever is inside due to their resolve alone.

I would say have the maze on the upper part be filled with fey creatures that can pass through the walls of the maze without problem, and that they are able to be reasoned with as long as the party doesn't kill any of them, but they will attack, as they are guardians of the lower caves. They are trying to keep something in, and because its been a long while, the fey creatures actually forgot whats inside; they just know its bad. If reasoned with, or if they're genocided, they will either give/have on them a page with a riddle. This riddle will solve a puzzle that will discern certain patterns in the lower maze that have secrets, shortcuts, or alternate pathways (some riddle that pertains to a certain carving that can be interacted with by doing what is listed in the riddle, like rubbing blood on it, touching it with silver, etc.). The fey will also have ranged attacks/spells/abilities that can attack those who fly. There are also a few places in the maze for those inside the maze who will spot indents in the floors which hold loot from defeated enemies. The fey don't care if it is taken, but will bargain for the location of its whereabouts. These spots can not be found flying as they are small details and the hedges are 30ft high as said before.

The manor has a basement that is locked with two arcane locks that require keys to open them. The door is solid adamantine with magical wards to make it nigh indestructible, with an inscription that reads that a powerful enemy, known only as the Fallen One in the writings, is locked under there and that opening the gate is the bad idea. Those with detect magic can see the magic that was radiating the place is coming out of the basement, and seems to be oozing out of the keyholes and cracks on the door.

Navigating the house plays around a lot of traps that you wouldn't find in a regular house, with the house's goal is ultimately prevent you from getting the keys. The first key is in the master bedroom and the second key is in the kitchen. I don't know if you'll have to edit this, but the house is riddled with ghosts, specters and other ethereal/incorporeal undead. The one guarding the kitchen key is a poltergeist that throws knives, cleavers, pots and pans at the players, and the one guarding the key in the bedroom sits at a poker/card table and demands that in order to get the key, you must play his game (your choice). The players can fight him, but expect that he will be harder. The Gambler (as I will call him) will gamble the players for their souls in a game of your choice, but not at once; he will offer them the key in six pieces, and their souls will be split into two pieces per player (or more or less for both, depending on how merciful or cruel you feel). The players do not lose their souls, even if they lose their chips until the last chip is taken. They can opt out at any time and return, but the chips will remain on whatever they have. If he holds the full part of one persons soul when they opt out, they lose their soul, but it can be won back. The party loses if everyone loses their soul. There will be ample artwork loot here, and the ghosts and such that wander the mansion were people who were trying to get into the lower labyrinth, save for the poltergeist who was a spirit conjured to protect the key and the gambler who is the former owner of the manor before the labyrinths were built (the gambler will explain this is talked to while playing his game who is happy to explain. He will not say anything about the labyrinths or what dwells in them, as he truly does not know. he will not even acknowledge the door down either).

Once the gambler is "defeated" (by either means), the party can take a long rest in his room as it seems safe. The Gambler will offer them rest when they finish his game and come to them if they are low on health in an encounter anywhere inside his house after his game is done as a reminder.

Once both keys are taken, the guardian at the entrance to the maze will appear door and stop the party from advancing. If the party answered that they were not ok with killing someone because they were doing their job and they killed any of the fey or the gambler, he will question the party on that, and will give the party a magical yellow stone. If the party said they were ok with killing something for doing its job, and they killed the fey or the gambler, he will commend them for their honesty but say they are walking down a bad road still, and give them a red stone. If the party said they would be ok with it, but didn't kill any of the fey or the gambler, he asked why they lied to him and give them a blue stone. If the party didn't agree and they killed none of the fey or the gambler, he will commend them for their honesty and their mercy and give them a green stone. He will explain that the stone will help guide them. The stone is magical and gives off light when used. He tells the party they will need that to descend to the deepest parts.

When the party goes into the lower labyrinth, they have several floors to descend. Each floor has a guardian that is not at the stairs, and each one has a stone of differing colors. One is specifically hidden behind one of those secret ways that the riddle talks about, which is the green stone holder who is a dragon of sufficient level but still the most challenging of the four and is on the last floor. The blue stone is held by a devil or demon of sufficient level that is on the second last floor of the lower labyrinth. The yellow stone is on the second floor and is held by a vampire of sufficient level who is easier than the demon/devil. The red stone is on the first floor of the lower labyrinth and held by an elvish spellcaster that is to be the weakest of the three. If the party has the stone of that color, they do not need to fight that boss, but they can still find it and defeat it. The party's actions made the maze easier or harder to deal with.

Once all four stone are recovered, the final floor has an altar that has an inscription telling of this dark one, and the magic radiates from it heavily. Players who use detect magic can actually use this to skip all four floors of the inner labyrinth and go straight for the stairs, as the magic radiates like a miasma from the altar and tries to escape outside. Putting the four stones down lowers another set of stairs, with the walls of the stairs telling of some horrible deeds done by a very powerful being. The guardian will appear one last time at the altar room and he will offer to heal the party as if they had a long rest if they obtained the green stone (otherwise, they will have to go back to the gambler's room). Regardless of the green stone, he will tell the party that this is the last chance to turn back, and if they do, the party can return, but they will have to fight the guardian who has all four stones on him and is a sort of punishment boss for not following through, being almsot as hard as the final boss.

The party makes it down the stairs to the lair of the Dark One, and they find inside a weakend but still powerful (and obviously altered) fallen angel, where he thanks the party for waking him up and then he fights them. I'll leave it up to you to fill in what he does, but make sure he is unable to fly because he is too weak and just woke up.

Assuming the party succeeds, the guardian congratulates the party and disappears as he explains he was there only to allow in someone who was able to defeat the Dark One. He disappears after he opens up a huge loot room inside the Dark One's room which holds several powerful items that were used to lure the fallen angel in here, as well as a lot of gold, gems, and other things. Most importantly, it has an entire blue print of the labyrinth, and tells the party of any secret loot spots they have missed.

Sorry if this might be too long, but this was fun to come up with

[SOLDIER First]

Alternatively, the Fallen One is actually imprisoned by the first generation of fey because their current ruler hated him for whatever reason you come up with. The Fallen One thanks the party for freeing him, explains the situation, and disappears (because the bindings of the room bound his magic too), which possibly allows him to show up in disguise in a later plot. He says all the loot is theirs, etc.

OR, the Fallen One doesn't exist. It was all a trick to keep everyone but the most dedicated adventurers from getting their hands on the treasure, explained helpfully by the guardian.