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Author Topic: Paid Mods -- Round 4: McGregor vs mAAAyweather  (Read 100590 times)

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #810 on: February 14, 2017, 11:46:26 am »

Season passes are a scam. Outright. By the way.
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Neonivek

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #811 on: February 14, 2017, 11:48:35 am »

Season passes are a scam. Outright. By the way.

They are now... I've only had maybe one great Season Pass in my life.

The problem is that they are now, because they are near guaranteed due to the effect I am referring to, used to give less content for more money.

Quote
You are saying a game without the DLC is incomplete. This is your own perception, and your problem

No.

Quote
Since it changes every other post.

No, I never changed it. It is the same one.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #812 on: February 14, 2017, 11:49:27 am »

Season passes are a scam. Outright. By the way.
Agreed. I rarely buy DLC unless its discounted or its required to play with a friend of mine who has already bought them or I feel it's decent value for money.

Neo, you literally said that in the quote. So is this "No" a rebuttal that you didn't say that or that it's not your problem?
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Rolan7

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #813 on: February 14, 2017, 11:51:11 am »

Oh jeez, replies.  Um, I'm actually going to delete a bit of a wall because I don't want to be overwhelming.
Sorry Rolan7 but your copy of For Honor is incomplete without expending the extra money.

You have the full version of Team Fortress 2 immediately.

That is how they get you to buy most of this DLC. They dangle it infront of your eyes and go "You will never have the complete experience without this! Don't you want the full game?"

The days where it was always expansion pack content has long since passed.

Just look at Xcom 2s Season Pass. Side Content, Side Content, Side Content, Cosmetics.
I fail to see how TF2 is a good example of DLC, except that you can "earn" most of the extra equipment by "playing" (idling).  It's a competitive game where you have to pay or wait to get important equipment.  Not *strictly* better, but very useful.  Pay-to-win, which TF2 skirts, is the worst kind of paid content IMHO.

I honestly don't understand what you mean about XCOM's DLCs.  I guess you're claiming the game is incomplete without them (though you call them side-content)...  The games were complete on launch.  The DLCs add more missions, challenges, and equipment to face those challenges.  They're expansions, building on the base gameplay experiences (not really meant for first time players).

No my argument is that they are trying to foster it.
It's true that they want people to buy all their DLC, yes.
That's... not wrong of them...
and tldr; I think you're grossly exaggerating how "incomplete" games are, in most cases.
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da_nang

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #814 on: February 14, 2017, 11:51:17 am »

I gotta go with Ispil here Neo. If you can't play a game without owning all of the available DLC that is your own problem. Seems you're projecting it onto the industry as a whole. DLC are additional optional parts of a game you can pay to unlock but are not necessary in any way.

What's funny is that what's "optional" is decided by the developer/publisher/shareholders. Remember From Ashes for Mass Effect 3? Yeah, the one with the last living prothean, a hyped-up precursor species that is constantly mentioned everywhere and basically was believed to have laid the foundation for the Council?

That's "optional DLC". Totally not necessary for the full experience.

And this keeps happening. More and more content get cut and released as DLC.

Spoiler: Progression of DLC (click to show/hide)
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #815 on: February 14, 2017, 11:53:19 am »

Yes, and I explicitly said that I oppose DLC in those cases.

The last DLC I bought that I felt was worth the money outside of a Paradox game was probably Shivering Isles for Oblivion. Of course, possibly one of the greatest DLCs ever made.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #816 on: February 14, 2017, 11:53:47 am »

What's funny is that what's "optional" is decided by the developer/publisher/shareholders. Remember From Ashes for Mass Effect 3? Yeah, the one with the last living prothean, a hyped-up precursor species that is constantly mentioned everywhere and basically was believed to have laid the foundation for the Council?

That's "optional DLC". Totally not necessary for the full experience.

And this keeps happening. More and more content get cut and released as DLC.

Spoiler: Progression of DLC (click to show/hide)
I never bought that one for Mass Effect 3. Was it any good?
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Neonivek

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #817 on: February 14, 2017, 11:55:36 am »

Season passes are a scam. Outright. By the way.
Agreed. I rarely buy DLC unless its discounted or its required to play with a friend of mine who has already bought them or I feel it's decent value for money.

Neo, you literally said that in the quote. So is this "No" a rebuttal that you didn't say that or that it's not your problem?

Neither of those.

There are several tactics a game developer (well producer is more of the ones who do it) uses in order to encourage people to buy DLC.

Microtransactions did this by being rather cheap individually, so people would both buy things they would have never wanted because of a perception of being inexpensive... AND people would lose track at how many they bought and end up with a lot of money on basically junk.

Fake Currency is a way to disconnect a person from actual money. We are not mathematical creatures.

Another is by fostering a sense of something being incomplete. This is why games are rarely released now that do not immediately tell you of the next expansion and sell it for a season pass. They will show you empty lots and questlines and go "Ohh if only you had this DLC" (Dragon Age Origins... should be slapped for this).

Or they constantly advertise in game... and I LOATHE "Shop" buttons in a game... I don't care where it is... Even if it is on the menu. But goodness I wish they were relegated to menu only. Even The Sims 3 and 4 ended up with permanent shop buttons right there on the UI.

OR the game actually is incomplete and they are selling you the finished product bits and pieces (Capcom did this a few times).

A way you are probably SOO used to you don't notice is Drink and Fry sizes at Fast Food Restaurants. They are set up so you are always influenced to go for the largest size. Sure YOU might not, but that is still what they are attempting to do.
---

The point of "The game is incomplete" is not literal. It is figurative... Well... USUALLY... (CAPCOM!!! and not Paradox... I was thinking of KALIPSO!)

They try as hard as they can to make you feel like you do not have the complete experience or complete package.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 12:02:44 pm by Neonivek »
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da_nang

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #818 on: February 14, 2017, 11:57:02 am »

What's funny is that what's "optional" is decided by the developer/publisher/shareholders. Remember From Ashes for Mass Effect 3? Yeah, the one with the last living prothean, a hyped-up precursor species that is constantly mentioned everywhere and basically was believed to have laid the foundation for the Council?

That's "optional DLC". Totally not necessary for the full experience.

And this keeps happening. More and more content get cut and released as DLC.

Spoiler: Progression of DLC (click to show/hide)
I never bought that one for Mass Effect 3. Was it any good?

Shameless and obvious money grab, but for the story it definitely filled in the gaps. First-hand sources are always better than statues.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #819 on: February 14, 2017, 11:58:06 am »

Shameless and obvious money grab, but for the story it definitely filled in the gaps. First-hand sources are always better than statues.
Glad I avoided it then. I played through Mass Effect 3 without any DLC except I think a free thing they released for the ending.
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Neonivek

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #820 on: February 14, 2017, 11:59:01 am »

The big issue with Paid Mods is that for the most part...

Many people collect a bunch and use them. This might not be a good way of going about it once paid mods are around.

Though maybe what will happen is that paid mods will die and become hardly used.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #821 on: February 14, 2017, 12:38:12 pm »

Maybe we'll get paid modpacks that are professionally curated and actually work without 2 hours of load order faffing about and random crashes ingame
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #822 on: February 14, 2017, 12:49:02 pm »

Maybe we'll get paid modpacks that are professionally curated and actually work without 2 hours of load order faffing about and random crashes ingame

I'd pay for that, if they were large enough. (Not much though lol.)
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Sergarr

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #823 on: February 14, 2017, 01:07:03 pm »

I'd argue that AAA games already cost waaaay too low than they should. The price has stayed on $60 for two decades, while if you follow up the inflation, it should've been risen by a factor of two or three already. Basically, this discrepancy between the rising real costs and the fixed returns is why the companies are so desperate for all these ways to effectively increase the financial return without breaking the video game's holy cow of "AAA game costs $60 and not a single dollar more".

Inflation has remained steady actually.

The reason for the 60 dollar price tag... was because of the cost of manufacturing.

This cost as all but disappeared but they kept the price.

Not to mention DLC means that most 60 dollar games today cost far more then 60 dollars... and can be upwards of 100 dollars... For example "For Honor" already costs over 100 dollars.
They also need to pay their developers too, you know. That costs quite a lot, especially for big AAA studios who have like hundreds of people on their payroll. Or thousands. All of whom need to be paid every month by the means of selling like one-two games per year at best. Plus there's contractors, software costs, electricity costs, renting the office space costs...

It's not enough to just say "oh there's no manufacturing now so the prices should be almost nil".

Yeah, digitally distributed games are already massively overpriced at $60. There's no ancillary costs (beyond percentages taken by the sale platform), and as Neo said, most AAA games release for more than that, with $60 being the bare-bones pleb price. If $60 is underpriced, please explain to me how devs can release solid, substantial games and run an acceptable profit selling for $15-20.
Because those non-AAA developers have vastly lower expenses, due to not running AAA-scale studios with all of the associated costs. Of course, these games are of significantly lower quality as a result. Though, most of said quality drop is of visual variety - graphics. It's ok if you don't value that, but clearly millions of people do, else they wouldn't buy those AAA titles.

All of this shit about wanting paid mods, wanting overpriced games, probably wanting DRM too? That's what causes piracy. If the industry wasn't full of money-grubbing scumbags without a lick of common sense or basic decency, piracy would barely even be a thing, on the level of criminality from consumers in other sectors of business (that is, limited to the selfish sort who will steal just because they can).
Noooo. Piracy of video games is caused by the ability to multiply the copies of these video games for free or at least at a very very low price without any immediately apparent negative consequences or repercussions. And it was always very high in video game industry, even back when the games were priced "right" and have had to be manufactured.

As an anecdotal example, back in late 1990s - early 2000s, before DLCs even existed, there were entire markets selling pirated video games and all kinds of programs at low prices all over Russia, to the extent of outnumbering the number of legal stores. And I doubt that was a phenomenon unique to Russia, either.

EDIT: Incidentally, that neatly proves that the costs of manufacturing are not that much, since those pirates were able to turn profits by selling games at like $3 per CD-disk.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2017, 01:09:57 pm by Sergarr »
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TheBiggerFish

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Re: Steam Workshop - Axing support for paid mods
« Reply #824 on: February 14, 2017, 01:17:32 pm »

Actually, most people will take easy, legal options over piracy though?
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