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Author Topic: Paid Mods -- Round 4: McGregor vs mAAAyweather  (Read 100779 times)

Frumple

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #375 on: April 25, 2015, 08:02:21 pm »

True enough. More or less no one is suggesting to stop paying taxes in this scenario, though...
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Sergarr

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #376 on: April 25, 2015, 08:03:16 pm »

The whole point is that I, I as in the person, can use the bench for FREE. Not for a small amount of money - for free.
Stop paying taxes and it won't be long before the bench falls into disrepair. You don't pay to use it, but you do pay for it to exist. So the monarchists can't call us entitled without risking another revolution. Private benches, on the other hand...
Except that there are people who do not pay taxes because they're unable to work. They're not prohibited from using benches, because there are other people who pay for them. And people who earn less money pay less in taxes, but still have the same bench-sitting right that everyone else enjoys.

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Bohandas

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #377 on: April 25, 2015, 08:08:55 pm »

I don't want the workshop to become gentrified. That sort of thing could spread and ruin everything.

EDIT:
So really I don't want modding in general to become gentrified. The workshop's already a piece of shit anyway, but it cpuld provide the seed for everything to become expensive and self-absorbed.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 08:12:25 pm by Bohandas »
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Propman

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #378 on: April 25, 2015, 08:15:25 pm »

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/33uplp/mods_and_steam/

Newell is now answering questions on Reddit. Hopefully the more soft-spoken folks will be able to get to him and properly inform him of the situation at hand. Thank goodness he reached out to there instead of 4chan.
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Putnam

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #379 on: April 25, 2015, 08:15:48 pm »

He's giving a bunch of corporatespeak and other such things there.

Also, not actually knowing how modding communities work.

Bohandas

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #380 on: April 25, 2015, 08:30:59 pm »

I certainly hope he doesn't know how they work or how to win them over. If one modding community falls under the influence of capitalism others may follow in a domino effect. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences. It has to fail here.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 08:34:07 pm by Bohandas »
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Putnam

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #381 on: April 25, 2015, 08:37:40 pm »

I certainly hope he doesn't know how they work or how to win them over. If one modding community falls under the influence of capitalism others may follow in a domino effect. You have a row of dominoes set up, you knock over the first one, and what will happen to the last one is the certainty that it will go over very quickly. So you could have a beginning of a disintegration that would have the most profound influences. It has to fail here.

Considering the >1000 downvotes on that post in particular, I don't think they're buying it.

Leyic

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #382 on: April 25, 2015, 08:45:56 pm »

The whole point is that I, I as in the person, can use the bench for FREE. Not for a small amount of money - for free.
Stop paying taxes and it won't be long before the bench falls into disrepair. You don't pay to use it, but you do pay for it to exist. So the monarchists can't call us entitled without risking another revolution. Private benches, on the other hand...
Except that there are people who do not pay taxes because they're unable to work. They're not prohibited from using benches, because there are other people who pay for them. And people who earn less money pay less in taxes, but still have the same bench-sitting right that everyone else enjoys.

Err... Let me step back a bit. What was the point of the original analogy? Reposting for clarity:

I like how we're entitled for wanting the modding community to stay as it was a week ago. Is this what being a monarchist is like?

Give those people enough time, and they'll say that we're entitled for using public benches for free. After all, people invested a lot of work into producing, delivering and repairing that bench, how dare we imply that we should be able to sit on it for free!

Sergarr

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #383 on: April 25, 2015, 08:52:39 pm »

The whole point is that I, I as in the person, can use the bench for FREE. Not for a small amount of money - for free.
Stop paying taxes and it won't be long before the bench falls into disrepair. You don't pay to use it, but you do pay for it to exist. So the monarchists can't call us entitled without risking another revolution. Private benches, on the other hand...
Except that there are people who do not pay taxes because they're unable to work. They're not prohibited from using benches, because there are other people who pay for them. And people who earn less money pay less in taxes, but still have the same bench-sitting right that everyone else enjoys.

Err... Let me step back a bit. What was the point of the original analogy? Reposting for clarity:

I like how we're entitled for wanting the modding community to stay as it was a week ago. Is this what being a monarchist is like?

Give those people enough time, and they'll say that we're entitled for using public benches for free. After all, people invested a lot of work into producing, delivering and repairing that bench, how dare we imply that we should be able to sit on it for free!
It should be really obvious.

Hint: you don't need everyone paying money for using something to make it sustainable - you just need someone providing the financing.
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Bohandas

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #384 on: April 25, 2015, 08:55:24 pm »

A better analogy for this situation would be someone going around trying to convince people who volunteer at soup kitchens that they should quit and go work at a reataurant instead
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Bauglir

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #385 on: April 25, 2015, 08:57:14 pm »

I wish I had some way to vote with my wallet, but I already bought the game under the premise that mods were free. I guess I'm glad I wound up returning that busted video card and never got a better one; a properly modded up Skyrim was half the point, and it looks like that plan is half a victim of the scheme and half a victim of the resulting shitstorm. I can't say Valve does me much harm this way; I'm not a modder. I've got no community fractured by different ideals from this. All they've done is remove future value from a product. I'd already gotten more than my money's worth from Skyrim, but if ES6 goes the same way I won't have any particular reason to buy it.

That minimum payments can be set is a huge problem; there's a lot more space between 0 and 1 than between 1 and 100, after all. That Bethesda gets a cut is equally annoying; they deserve payment for their work, of course, but they got that when I bought the game. I doubt this move will come with a permanent, commensurate cut in the game's price point. These are reasons I won't buy things, but they're not reasons for me to chew out Valve. They're just failures to deliver on value to me, like smartphones.

The legal bungling of the copyright aspects is, now that I've thought on it, probably the most troubling part of this whole debacle; it suggests that it was envisioned as a free money add-on, instead of as something to benefit content creators, because it ignores them entirely in favor of the most optimistic answer. That's probably a good reason to get upset with them. Quality control is pretty bad, too - I know mods need to be vetted, but the financial aspect creates an expectation on the part of the purchaser that there will be compatibility and support that simply can't exist. When vanilla Skyrim breaks, you can submit a bug report, and you can expect that somebody at Bethesda, or at least on the unofficial patch team (whose scope is narrow enough to be feasible), will make an effort to fix it. There's no possible analogue for mod compatibility; it's a purely caveat emptor system, and that's a huge problem with including cash. No amount of vetting will be able to handle that, and if we rely on the community to do it, then by the logic that we should pay modders, we ought to pay testers, too. These are things worth complaining about.

I'm upset on behalf of the people who are in the modding community, to be sure. It's really not fair that you have to go through this massive ideological clusterfuck when, presumably, your primary goal is to make awesome things. Bleh. I can't help but feel some people are blowing this out of proportion to what it does to them for the sake of having a good fight, but you guys have got some pretty damn legitimate grievances here.
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Propman

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #386 on: April 25, 2015, 09:14:52 pm »

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/gabe-newell-says-valve-will-dump-paid-mods-if-they/1100-6426893/

Cautious optimism here, but I'm glad to hear that Gabe at least seems to have the best intentions at heart. Though, that only makes me wonder who instigated this whole ordeal in the first place, since it appears he was quite clueless of the greater implications this would cause; as if he wasn't given the whole picture.
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Quote from: from Pathos on April 07, 2010, 08:29:05 pm »
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Leyic

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #387 on: April 25, 2015, 09:16:50 pm »

It should be really obvious.

Hint: you don't need everyone paying money for using something to make it sustainable - you just need someone providing the financing.
If I'm asking about it, then it isn't as obvious as you'd like to believe. I seriously doubt your suggesting that the government should buy ValveThesda* in order to subsidize modders, so what's your point?

*Thank you Blaze. How much do I owe you, and how much will you get to keep?

Blaze

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #388 on: April 25, 2015, 09:25:38 pm »

I accept pay in Gaia gold.

100% will go to my waistline. And another 100% will go to my thighs.
200% will go into self-pity ice cream.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 09:28:18 pm by Blaze »
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Frumple

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Re: Steam Workshop - Now supporting pay-for mods
« Reply #389 on: April 25, 2015, 09:31:17 pm »

I seriously doubt your suggesting that the government should buy ValveThesda* in order to subsidize modders, so what's your point?
They... wouldn't need to? The metaphorical price of the bench has already been included, this whole time, in the cost of the game.
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