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Author Topic: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization  (Read 31900 times)

sjm9876

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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2015, 04:41:47 pm »

Doubt we're going to pass light speed.

If it really is an Acubierre drive, then there are certain inherent problems even beyond the construction - for example, the destruction of the destination (wikipedia article contains information on the issues.). Of course, a sub-c drive may still be on the cards (as far as I understand them), and could still be a vast improvement over anything we have today.

That said, I'm also somewhat sceptical about how well it would scale up. These kinds of things tend not to do so so well.

All that said, i'll be watching this.
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TempAcc

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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2015, 04:44:09 pm »

If anything I'm excited about reasonably cheap space travel. Anything over that is just icing on the cake. Of course, interstellar travel might still be out of reach, but just being able to casually travel between the planets in the solar systems would be a huge leap. Plus this technology might have interesting implications on energy production, which is a big problem faced by humanity, currently.
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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2015, 04:50:20 pm »

If we go interstellar without dealing with our major 'Earth' problems first, this will just result in Donald Trump turning into Frieza.
The good news is that going interstellar would almost certainly deal with most of our major Earth problems. An indeterminately gendered planet-selling Donald Trump is a small price to pay for that, methinks, especially when we could just produce violencemonkeys to reign in its excesses.
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Bohandas

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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2015, 04:55:25 pm »

If they really did discover something equivalent to an alcubierre bubble (and I doubt that they did) then space travel is only of secondary importance as an application. The creation of an alcubierre bubble in spacetime would imply the creation (or at least existence) of negative mass, which would imply the possibility of perpetual motion

Due to the fact that (x joules = 2x joules + -1x joules). That is to say that the creation of new mass or energy would not violate some formulations of the first law of thermodynamics provided that an equal magnitude of negative mass/energy was simultaneously created, leaving the total constant
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2015, 05:06:02 pm »

Born too late to explore the earth.

Born just in time to explore the galaxy...and browse dank memes.
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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2015, 05:20:09 pm »

I'll believe it when I see it.

I also was going to create Death Beam Cheney but paint.net has proven absolutely unworkable again.
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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2015, 05:34:54 pm »

This is fascinating, but I won't hold my breath until they pump a few kilowatts through one of these things in a vacuum and it works.

That said, even if it doesn't work in a vacuum, it could prove very useful for atmospheric travel.
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LordBucket

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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2015, 06:24:19 pm »

It would be cool if accurate, but I'm gonna bet the measurements are an equipment error like those neutrinos a couple of years back

Well, it's been like two years now that NASA has been testing this, and they keep saying it seems to work.



I wonder how viable it would be, in monetary terms.

Potentially extremely viable.

Again, they're using magnetrons. You have one in your microwave oven. That's basically what they're doing: firing microwaves around inside a enclosed metal chamber. That thruster they're talking about? It's powered by a device only about 100-200 times more powerful than the one you probably have in your microwave right now. Sure, "100 to 200 times" is significant, but this is super old, super cheap technology we're talking about.

To give you an idea, here's a 1000 watt magnetron on amazon for $60. It weighs two pounds and is about the size of a computer power supply.

So let's do some fun, off the cuff armchair math:

 * 100kw magnetron generating 2000N of force
 * acceleration of gravity at sea level is 9.8m/s per second

That's a break even point of 204kg/449 pounds. One of those thrusters could lift a craft weighing 448 pounds out of earth's gravity. No escape velocity math required. Let's now assume that there's no efficiency gain or loss when scaling up, and simply multiply the price and weight of that magnetron on amazon.com by 100. That's a $6000, 200 pound magnetron capable of meeting the requirements of that 2000N thruster. It weighs 200 pounds, and it can apply enough force to lift 448 pounds out of earth's gravity.

A Cessna 180 is only 2600 pounds.

Yes, your spaceship will need to have vacuum sealing and oxygen, and other things the Cessna doesn't. But in terms of a general order of magnitude, we may be talking about 1-2 man spacecraft at costs comparable to similarly sized aircraft. Possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars. Single digit millions, easily. You might even see hobbyists building spaceships in their garage, just like there are people who build ultralights now. If 10 $6000 engines cost $60,000, weigh 2000 pounds and can lift 4480 pounds into space, somebody will find a way to make it happen.

This could potentially bring interplanetary space travel into a similar budget range as air travel is now.



interstellar travel might still be out of reach, but just being able to
casually travel between the planets in the solar systems would be a huge leap.

Yeah, depends on whether the warp bubble theory is correct. The numbers they're giving for the emdrive do make it look like casual planetary travel could be realistic. Again, mere weeks to Mars is looking attainable at extremely reasonable cost. But while the emdrive does solve a lot of problems, it doesn't solve the energy requirements, and even if you can accelerate at human-comfortable limits for years, it still takes years to travel between stars. And it's problematic to use stars as a power source when you're travelling light years away from them.

So...build something the size of an aircraft carrier, put a nuclear generator big enough to power a city on the thing, carry years worth of nuclear fuel, accelerate at 1g...you can probably get to the nearest star in under ten years. I don't know how to do the required relativistic math, but 1 year at 1g is .77c, and it's ~4.2light years to Proxima Centuri. We could do it. But we've had the technological knowledge to travel between stars since the 60s. We've simply chosen to not do it.10 years is much better than the 50 years projected by Project Daedalus, but even so, I'm not sure if we'd decide to do it even if we knew we could do it in ten years.

If the warp effect is real though, FTL travel may be on the table.




Flying Dice

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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2015, 06:39:05 pm »

Ho-lee shit. I'll be watching this closely, then.
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Teneb

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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2015, 06:51:44 pm »

Thanks for all the analysis LB. I am quite excited now. Has there been any official announcement or has it appeared in any major media outlet?
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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2015, 06:58:55 pm »

They don't dare announce it; as soon as the government remembers that NASA exists the left and right will hold hands to strip away the last of their funding.
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Wolfhunter107

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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2015, 07:01:35 pm »

Holy mother of God.
This could be big. Really big.
(Or just a sensor malfunction)
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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2015, 07:32:54 pm »

A little late for April Fools, guys.

Helgoland

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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2015, 07:36:16 pm »

PTW, but I'd pu my money on experiment failure as well.
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Re: Emdrive news: we might be about to become an interstellar civilization
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2015, 07:41:33 pm »

Gonna call bullshit on this one. This would be life-on-mars level major news, and there isn't a peep about it aside from the one single source which has been pushing emdrive stuff. Not on google news, not on a google search, not on a couple of space news specific sites I frequent. While magic spacebuses would be great, this isn't it.

And beyond just that, skimming that article suggests they're extrapolating this from 'simulations.' Simulations of something based on 'unknown physics?' Yeah, that's just asking to get bad data out.
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