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[swordsmith04]

Haha, I wish. It was actually easier this time around than the first time; I didn't need a spreadsheet this time, since the lists I was scrolling through were for one user only each.

And yes, I volunteered when PW asked for someone to do it, a little over a year ago now. It's technically every mission cycle, but this one was kind of screwed up by new missions starting before the original missions had all ended. In any case, 21-23 have all ended now, so that's done with. I'll just count M26 as part of the next mission cycle, or something.

[Ozarck]

that sounds right. m24-26 are all ongoing concurrently, after all. Well, were. Now it's just the two, and soon to be just us.

[swordsmith04]

For archival purposes:

20:21:50 <Swordsmith04> Piecewise, I mentioned this in my on-ship action, but in case you skipped over that: I did up the wiki gnome data for this mission cycle over in the wiki thread, so you can do gnome payments whenever.
20:23:23 <Piecewise> sword, do you have an idea how much everyone should be paid?
20:23:30 <Piecewise> I put someone in charge of that, I forget who
20:24:10 <Swordsmith04> ...You put me in charge of gathering the data, and decided yourself roughly how much it was worth last time. I included comparisons to previous pay, this time.
20:32:33 <Piecewise> Sword: Ok. So you've got the data for that set out?
20:32:47 <Swordsmith04> Right here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=149970.msg6740974#msg6740974
20:32:52 <Piecewise> THanks
20:35:59 <Piecewise> Sword. Nav gets fucking 16 tokens
20:36:09 <Piecewise> Aoshima gets 10
20:36:23 <Piecewise> Paris gets 5
20:36:36 <Piecewise> Radio gets 3
20:36:44 <Piecewise> Nik gets 3
20:37:03 <Piecewise> Comrade gets 5, since he's helping out extra with IH
20:37:19 <Piecewise> You get 4
20:37:26 <Piecewise> Kri 2
20:37:28 <Piecewise> Sy 1
20:37:30 <Piecewise> Nun 1
20:37:33 <Piecewise> Cael 1
20:37:35 <Piecewise> Dut 1
20:37:40 <Piecewise> Spaz 1
20:37:44 <Piecewise> ozark 1
20:37:48 <Piecewise> No one else anything
20:37:56 <Swordsmith04> Gotcha. I'll start adding those now.
20:38:01 <Piecewise> Thank you sir
20:38:03 <Oz> Neat! Thank you, Evil overlord!
20:38:14 <Nav> Wow thanks!
20:38:17 <Piecewise> (give yourself an extra one, under the table for your work here swordy) (This line was never here, move along citizen)

[NAV]

We should fix the armory. It's cluttered up with too much useless and outdated stuff. Everyone knows that.

I propose we create a page titled "Main armory", and add only the best and most useful stuff to that page. Then we leave the old armory page exactly as it is but rename it to "Expanded Armory" or similar.

This requires deciding what items are worth going in the main armour, which should be a community effort. We should start with CON and work our way down.

[Radio Controlled]

Maybe we should just make an 'armory backlog' page and move outdated/unavailable stuff there, and keep the regular armory page name. So there aren't a whole bunch of double entries.

[Nikitian]

First, I wholeheartedly support the notion. In fact, I have already been working on the list of things to keep/to move together with Syvarris.

Second, while I endorse the idea of getting the community feedback on this, ICly, I believe, this is part of Hephaestus Head of Engineering duties. There is already a precedent for declaring equipment obsolete and replacing it, so I believe there shouldn't be any troubles on that part.

Third, I am not sure what to do with all the "space magic" items, as they are supposedly "restricted" now. Shall we move them on to a third separate page, something like "Restricted Armory Equipment"? Or just rubber-stamp every such entry in the Armory with [RESTRICTED] and call it a day?

Fourth, the only thing that has stopped me so far was that the templates are tied to the armory page specifically, and I couldn't create a proper duplicate for the "Back of the Armory" page, or however we'd call it. Paris, could you help us with this?


...Hmmm. Maurice is back to the Sword and is in actual comm range with Hephaestus. RC, you wouldn't call it "meta" now to fulfil my long-neglected duties?

[NAV]

I would like to see that list.

I think that origin tech should have a third separate page.

Looks like we do need Paris or someone as skilled to come to the rescue.

[AoshimaMichio]

One thing that probably would help is filtering. By cost, strength requirement (human, synth, battlesuit, ect) and skill/category. I don't know how much JavaScript can be injected to wiki page, but I could do that. Assuming I can whip myself into mood write any JavaScript outside of my job...

[Nikitian]

I'll fish it out and tidy up ASAP, when I have the time, but given what Piecewise said - should we get into frenzy and complete the Armory revamp before everyone goes off to buying stuff (maybe even advise to hold off a little), or let them do it with the old list for now, and introduce the changes afterwards?

Right now, both variants are possible, I believe. But we'd need to act soon if we decide to do so.

[Radio Controlled]

I think that origin tech should have a third separate page.

Personally, I think I'd prefer that we try not to make too many redundant pages, a single backlog armory where we dump all the outdated or extremely niche or Origin stuff seems better to me. Keep things at least a little more coherent/straightforward. But if most people would like it separate, that's fine enough as well.

I'll fish it out and tidy up ASAP, when I have the time, but given what Piecewise said - should we get into frenzy and complete the Armory revamp before everyone goes off to buying stuff (maybe even advise to hold off a little), or let them do it with the old list for now, and introduce the changes afterwards?

Right now, both variants are possible, I believe. But we'd need to act soon if we decide to do so.

I'd say we do it slow and right. The armory page as is has served us well up till now, it'll do for a little while more I think.

Second, while I endorse the idea of getting the community feedback on this, ICly, I believe, this is part of Hephaestus Head of Engineering duties. There is already a precedent for declaring equipment obsolete and replacing it, so I believe there shouldn't be any troubles on that part.

I think this is something that might be better done communally, since the armory wiki page should primarily function for the players who need to look up things they wanna buy. That said, I don't think there'll be much discussion over the most obvious things.

...Hmmm. Maurice is back to the Sword and is in actual comm range with Hephaestus. RC, you wouldn't call it "meta" now to fulfil my long-neglected duties?

Such as? I kinda imagined the trial would happen quickly after the mission debrief (are we ever getting that?), but I don't think it'll be a big problem (though that's hard to say without knwing what kind of things you're referring to).

[NAV]

I think that origin tech should have a third separate page.

Personally, I think I'd prefer that we try not to make too many redundant pages, a single backlog armory where we dump all the outdated or extremely niche or Origin stuff seems better to me. Keep things at least a little more coherent/straightforward. But if most people would like it separate, that's fine enough as well.

I think it would be less confusing to have separate pages for recommended things, things that aren't recommended but you can still buy, and things that just don't fucking work anymore. Rather than grouping those last two into one page.

[Radio Controlled]

I think that origin tech should have a third separate page.

Personally, I think I'd prefer that we try not to make too many redundant pages, a single backlog armory where we dump all the outdated or extremely niche or Origin stuff seems better to me. Keep things at least a little more coherent/straightforward. But if most people would like it separate, that's fine enough as well.

I think it would be less confusing to have separate pages for recommended things, things that aren't recommended but you can still buy, and things that just don't fucking work anymore. Rather than grouping those last two into one page.

Oh yeah, I can see the reasoning, I personally just prefer the former. We'll see what the others think, kay?

[Nikitian]

I'll fish it out and tidy up ASAP, when I have the time, but given what Piecewise said - should we get into frenzy and complete the Armory revamp before everyone goes off to buying stuff (maybe even advise to hold off a little), or let them do it with the old list for now, and introduce the changes afterwards?

Right now, both variants are possible, I believe. But we'd need to act soon if we decide to do so.

I'd say we do it slow and right. The armory page as is has served us well up till now, it'll do for a little while more I think.

Actually, I believe it's in a very sorry state right now, especially because of the lack of the AM in the kiosk, but that's me. And yeah, anyway going to cut up on the number of crap as we move on to elsewhere. Just supposed we could do that before we moved on for a change.

I think that origin tech should have a third separate page.

Personally, I think I'd prefer that we try not to make too many redundant pages, a single backlog armory where we dump all the outdated or extremely niche or Origin stuff seems better to me. Keep things at least a little more coherent/straightforward. But if most people would like it separate, that's fine enough as well.

I think it would be less confusing to have separate pages for recommended things, things that aren't recommended but you can still buy, and things that just don't fucking work anymore. Rather than grouping those last two into one page.

To be honest, since Armory is theoretically an official list of thinks produced/supplied/approved by Hephaestus, I'd keep everything on the page, but mark the older and less recommended items as such. Eventually, I'd hope to replace all "outdated" weapons with up-to-date "modern" ones - with the Tinker effort shaped and pointed at the most glaring cases.

Actually, my discussion with Syvarris contained some internal "ratings" of various weapons - perhaps we should actually keep those to help newcomers with choosing the equipment? With the disclaimer about certain degree of subjectiveness of a such system, of course.

Second, while I endorse the idea of getting the community feedback on this, ICly, I believe, this is part of Hephaestus Head of Engineering duties. There is already a precedent for declaring equipment obsolete and replacing it, so I believe there shouldn't be any troubles on that part.

I think this is something that might be better done communally, since the armory wiki page should primarily function for the players who need to look up things they wanna buy. That said, I don't think there'll be much discussion over the most obvious things.

Except it's by default that everything on the Armory page is endorsed by Hephaestus and produced. Which often isn't the case, really, and I would really like to deal away with that ambiguity.

And, to be honest, I think that the recommendations and "outdatedness" of items should be decided by the hardcore tinkerers, as they are most likely to see which things are completely broken worth it and which are not. It's right up their professional interest, after all. Sure, you could argue that those with field-use experience could know better, but it's a point for tinkerers worth their salt o analyze the combat data as soon as it is available, and update their understanding of the system.
(And, well, that reason is why I initially consulted with Syv in the first place. )

[Parisbre56]

Fourth, the only thing that has stopped me so far was that the templates are tied to the armory page specifically, and I couldn't create a proper duplicate for the "Back of the Armory" page, or however we'd call it. Paris, could you help us with this?

The AL template (http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Template:AL) isn't tied to the current Armory page in any way. You can use it anywhere.

The Armory Item infobox template (http://einsteinianroulette.wikia.com/wiki/Template:Armory_Item) has been modified. It now has the "armory" field which should point to the name of the intended Armory page. If left empty, it defaults to the current Armory page, so that it doesn't break old pages.

If you think it's better/less work to make it default to another value, then it's easy to change that. For example, if you want to change it to Expanded_Armory, you can change every occurrence of

Code: [Select]

{{{armory|Armory}}}to

Code: [Select]

{{{armory|Expanded_Armory}}}in the template code.

EDIT: @Aoshima: In order to prevent people from executing arbitrary code, wikitext is heavily sanitized. There's very little you can do in terms of javascript or even custom html. It might be better to just make your own page in a separate host and parse the data in the wiki to it.

I'd do it myself, but the current host I use for my stat calculator webpage is banned from wikia. That's why I couldn't get the levelup page to work, because I couldn't extract the stats from the wiki page. And I don't have enough time to go find a new free host.

EDIT2: If you want to add armoury items to different categories depending on which armoury they belong, I can do that. Just tell me which category you want me to make it point at.

[AoshimaMichio]

I could theoretically create a sub account for you on my host with restricted access, if you want to... It probably isn't banned yet.