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[Sergarr]

You may notice that many--indeed, most--individuals who are really into those games has a TrackIR setup for headtracking. This is not a coincidence. Using alt to move your head around is fairly clunky, and IR headtracking takes a bit of getting used to due to the display not really moving with your head. VR solves both those problems.

That's flight simulators. I forgot about them and yes, VR would be useful for them. Add them to the virtual tabletop games, and also first person shooters. That makes it three genres where VR is useful. Out of dozens.

VR is a pretty niche thing. It's supposed to imitate real life, but in real life people try to use flat surfaces for anything they can and avoid making things where you have to move your head and hands around constantly. The only exceptions are... sight-seeing, tabletop games, and being an aircraft pilot. Huh.

[LordBucket]

Why do you keep ignoring

Mostly because you're being ridiculous. Also because you keep bringing up points that would be irrelevant if you'd actually read the opening post.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

How much does a computer that could run a VR system effectively cost?  That's gonna be the biggest barrier of entry.


In my opinion, the area VR will be most effective in is not going to be games.  Instead, it is going to be used in highly advanced training simulators, so that people in jobs carrying a high risk of injury or death and/or have a potential to deal a large amount of damage if done improperly, can gain practical experience without putting themselves at risk.

[Sergarr]

Why do you keep ignoring

Mostly because you're being ridiculous. Also because you keep bringing up points that would be irrelevant if you'd actually read the opening post.

What, are you talking about this insane "15x15 empty room that will apparently trick you into being much better than it is by "clever use of turns" which will not break the in-game immersion in any way shape or form" project? Not to mention that you wouldn't be able to use it for more than a few hours without getting tired. And god forbid you actually manage to stumble IRL while doing some activity in the game (which is something to be expected, really)

[wierd]

 Already a solution for that.  Some time back, they invented an omnidirectional treadmill specifically for immersive VR. It's called the Virtuix Omni.

Put one of those in the room, and now you can get by with a tiny closet.

[Sergarr]

Already a solution for that.  Some time back, they invented an omnidirectional treadmill specifically for immersive VR. It's called the Virtuix Omni.

Put one of those in the room, and now you can get by with a tiny closet.

1) It's not cheap.
2) Treadmill running is tiring. Hell, even walking for a long time is. And if you're just planning to stand there, the treadmill isn't even needed. The goggles will do.

[LordBucket]

How much does a computer that could run a VR system effectively cost?  That's gonna be the biggest barrier of entry.

For Morpheus, you'll need a Playstation 4.

Not much information on the Hololens yet.

For Oculus, it's difficult to say because the hardware hasn't been finalized. But the recommended specs for the most recent Developer's Kit were: "A desktop computer running a dedicated graphics card with DVI-D or HDMI graphics output, with capability of running current generation 3D games at 1080p resolution at 75fps or higher." But, that's DK2. According to wikipedia, DK1 was 640x800 per eye, Dk2 is 960x1080 per eye, and the final release is expected to be "at least 1920x1080 per eye." And speculation on reddit is that the 75 frames per second is going to bumped up to 90. Apparently the way it's designed, every other frame is rendered to each screen, so a 90hz framerate works out to only 45 on each eye, and the general consensus seems to be that 75/2 just isn't enough.

According to this, the Vive is two 1200x1080 screens, also at 90hz.

Hopefully someone can translate all that into likely hardware requirements.

[Vattic]

I won't have space for a Vive for the foreseeable future and wonder how well they'll hide the size of the room. If enough games supported a VR headset I'd strongly consider it. Better input isn't necessary even if I'd like it; I've been disappointed with any kind of motion controls except TrackIR and until they figure out how to create feedback I doubt I'll be impressed.

That's flight simulators. I forgot about them and yes, VR would be useful for them. Add them to the virtual tabletop games, and also first person shooters. That makes it three genres where VR is useful. Out of dozens.

Driving games too.

One advantage 3rd person view games have over 1st person is that you get a kind of peripheral vision. I know some games include 3rd person at least partly for this reason (ARMA series for example). If VR takes off I suspect a lot of games that would have been 3rd person would shift to 1st. I am mostly talking about games where the camera sits behind the character rather than overhead.

[LordBucket]

Apparently there will be a livestreamed Eve Valkyrie VR tournament on March 21st. Eve Valkyrie being an exclusive to VR game. Curious to see if the livestream is broadcast only in 2D, or if there will be an omnidirectional stream for people with developer's kits. Actually, I'm curious to see howthe 2D part of the broadcast even works. Valkyrie is a twitch dogfighting game. I would expect there to be a lot of jerky head motions from the players. Looking at what players see on a stationary screen might be weird.

I won't have space for a Vive for the foreseeable future and wonder how well they'll hide the size of the room.

15x15 is the maximum size Valve's system can accommodate. Presumably smaller spaces will work too. We might start seeing minimum space requirements and recommendations on games in the near future.

If enough games supported a VR headset I'd strongly consider it.

Current wikipedia list of games with native Oculus Rift support: 197 games. Though note that those are games with rift support, which is not the same as Valve's spatial deal. Most of those games are probably played sitting down, no dedicated room required.

until they figure out how to create feedback

The groundwork has already been done. Here's an ultrasonic haptics demo from CES 2015. But most of the work on this has apparently been assuming that it would be applied to holograms, not VR. It's only been since last year that I think many people have been taking veryseriously the idea that VR devices would be commercially available anytime soon. Now that they're almost upon us, it's going to be used for VR. Soon maybe, but not yet. Give it a few years.

[LordBucket]

Probably worth mentioning that the Gear VR headset goes on sale in limited Best Buy locations starting Friday. It's a chassis that you slide a Samsung Galaxy Note 4 tablet into to turn it into a makeshift VR headset.

General consensus from reviews seems to be that it's a neat little toy, but nevertheless a toy. Better that the original version 1 rift dev kit, but not as good as the second. And given that it's a tablet and not a PC, it's likely that a lot of currently available content won't work here.  Plus, the headse is $200 just for the chassis and needs a~$600 tablet to make it do anything. Meanwhile, Oculus Rift DK2 is only $350. Which seems a bit silly. Sounds to me like they're trying to make a quick buck on a product they know full well nobody will care about in a year.

But, Best Buy is demoing the headsets at some of their stores. Sadly, my local stores aren't on that list.

Any bay12ers with a demo location nearby willing to check it out and report back?

[LordBucket]

Also, here's a video of the Eve Valkyrie VR Tournament from Eve Fanfest 2015 a few days ago.

[Vattic]

15x15 is the maximum size Valve's system can accommodate. Presumably smaller spaces will work too. We might start seeing minimum space requirements and recommendations on games in the near future.

Right now I have a few feet of open floor space. Still hunting for somewhere bigger to live that I can afford.

Current wikipedia list of games with native Oculus Rift support: 197 games. Though note that those are games with rift support, which is not the same as Valve's spatial deal. Most of those games are probably played sitting down, no dedicated room required.

Good to see even if a good chunk are still in development. Always annoyed me how few games, especially FPS ones, supported TrackIR. Oculus Rift and VR in general seems to have more momentum at the moment than before so hopefully it'll not be a problem. I know with TrackIR it was because it meant separating looking and aiming which wasn't easy to add after you'd already made a game that assumed both were the same. This problem will likely go away as things are developed with it in mind from the start.

The groundwork has already been done. Here's an ultrasonic haptics demo from CES 2015. But most of the work on this has apparently been assuming that it would be applied to holograms, not VR. It's only been since last year that I think many people have been taking veryseriously the idea that VR devices would be commercially available anytime soon. Now that they're almost upon us, it's going to be used for VR. Soon maybe, but not yet. Give it a few years.

Holograms and touchscreens right?

A student from Reading University came and did a talk at my college where they told us about the CAVE they built. Used a combination of headsets, projectors, and haptic feedback gloves (used motors I think). Apparently they got the original Doom running on it, but performance was bad. They were mostly aiming for non-gaming uses like training surgeons and even long distance robot assisted surgery.

[Zanzetkuken The Great]

I have to wonder why all of the companies are using controllers rather than a glove, as with that you can track every finger and have it apply pressure to parts of the hand that would be in contact with a virtual object.

Edit: Could even have them lock to being unable to close further when an object is being held in the hand.

[wierd]

It neednt be the bulky kind either.


There was some research not that long ago into tactile displays, which basically just use a tiny electrical current to trick your nerve endings in your fingers into believing they are pressing against something.


A better understanding of the data to perception correlation, would allow very thin, light gloves (say, silk?) with the electrode arrays woven in to be worn, and would give the user a vastly improved experience.  Some high contrast fiducial registrations on the glove's outer surface would let an optical system, like Valve's, pick it up, so the system could track hand location.

Combined, the user could run their hand along a virtual wall, and feel the texture of that wall.

[i2amroy]

I have to wonder why all of the companies are using controllers rather than a glove, as with that you can track every finger and have it apply pressure to parts of the hand that would be in contact with a virtual object.

Edit: Could even have them lock to being unable to close further when an object is being held in the hand.

Generally because it's much, much cheaper to have a hard controller hold a bunch of electronics than to print out electronics that are both smooth and flexible enough to exist on a bending and moving glove (in addition to the fact that you can wire a controller much easier than a glove, which would probably require being wireless and drive the price up even more).

I have no doubt that eventually we're going to get glove controllers, but it's probably going to hold off until we've put some more money into researching ways to drive the overall cost of the required technologies down.