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[LordBucket]

Any bay12ers with a demo location nearby willing to check it out and report back?

So I have now done a Gear VR demo.

A porn demo.

What can i say? The line for HTC Vive was about 2 hours. the line for the porn on Gear VR was under 2 minutes. Without getting into too much detail about the actual content, my overall reaction to the experience was "meh, this is not as good as expected. No wait, actually this is kind of neat. Grr, this is actually annoying. No wait, this is neat again."

For about five minutes.

The audio was terrible. The "screen door effect" is very prominent. To get an idea, get up close to your monitor so your nose is touching it. Literally, touch your nose to your monitor. What looked like a sold color from a distance will have a visible grid of pixels up close. With Gear VR, this effect was extremely noticable. That said, it's not a huge deal. Yes, it's pretty much the first thing you notice, but because it's uniform it's very easy to ignore. Sort of like looking through a real screen door. Yes, obviously it's noticeable, but it's not a hindrance at all and you pretty much get used to it.

The biggest shortcoming of the experience was that there was no "zoom" capability. It was left/right rotation only. Turn your head and your field of view moves accordingly. But move your head in and the distance to the scene remains the same, creating an optical illusion of it "running away" from you. And the same when moving back, except instead of running away the scene follows you. I found this to be extremely immersion breaking. And kind of annoying. It also responded somewhat poorly to roll and yaw rotations if you turn your head too far, but there was enough leeway in those directions that the scene only once became obviously, immersion breakingly wrong because of it. Keep within 45 degrees of level and it was ok. Yaw was much better than roll. The lack of zoom was far more noticeable than either.

Overall, it was "neat." But I don't think I would buy one. And even if somebody gave me one, I doubt I'd use it very much. It's about on the level of "cute toy" rather than "awesome, yay, time to give up on real life!"

However, this was a completely passive experience. Essentially a 3d video with the ability to turn your head. But everything interesting was happening directly in front of me. 18 inches away from my face in front of me were naked people. Turning my meant looking at the walls instead. Overall the experience was not tremendously well suited to VR. That said, there were a few "oh wow" moments that lasted a few seconds before being killed by me moving forward and watching them run away from me.

An interactive experience would probably be more compelling. And Gear VR is the low end, cheap, gimmick model. It's not even a full headset. It's a piece of plastic that you slide a cellphone into, much like google cardboard. Vive and Rift will probably be much better. Simply adding the ability to move forward and back, plus an interactive experience would add a great deal.

[ShoesandHats]

Well, we're ever nearer to the release of the Vive and the Rift, and I'm wondering which one I should get. I'm pretty set on getting a VR headset, as I've been following the recent development of VR for a while now. So far, I like the looks of the Vive (especially because it's going to be out sooner than the Rift), but I've got a couple questions that I haven't found any answers to yet. Is the Vive going to work fine while seated and stationary, or is an empty room a necessity? Will games compatible with the Rift also work on the Vive? Do only far-sighted people have to use their glasses with the headset on, or do near-sighted people also have to wear them?

Maybe I'll scalp a ticket for Pax and check out the demo, if at all possible.

[Rose]

I think games made specifically for the vive might need a full room, but otherwise I don't see why the two should be incompatible besides artifical locking.

[LordBucket]

Is the Vive going to work fine while seated and stationary, or is an empty room a necessity?

Vive works fine while seated. You just need to position the Lighthouses accordingly. The full 15x15 room is not required, that's merely the limit of their range.

Will games compatible with the Rift also work on the Vive?

Probably, but nobody knows for sure. The companies involved have made contradictory statements. However, people in the various reddit subs with Vive developer's kits dont' seem to be reporting any difficulty.

If there are compatibility issues, it's more likely that Rift games will work on Vive, but Vive games won't work on Rift. Reason being, Vive is capable of things that Rift isn't. If a developer makes a game that uses the default xbox controller that ships with the Rift, that's no problem for the Vive because you can use a standard game controller with the Vive. But if a developer makes a game that uses the Vive's controllers, you're going to physically need that hardware because those controllers have tracking devices on them. The game knows where the controllers physically are in space. An xbox controller isn't capable of giving that feedback.

Additionally there are mixed reports on Rift's room scale tracking capabilities, but the general consensus seems to be that Vive's hardware is simply better. There are people who are chaining Lighthouses to create 300 x 300 foot virtual spaces in warehouses, and it's just a question of how many Lighthouse units they need. The largest space I've ever read anyone claim the Rift could support was 12x12, and if you watch Rift "roomscale" demos, they're generally on a tiny little 5x5 pad and the person doing the demo never turns his back away from forward, because Constellation is only a single camera. If you turn around, it can't see through your body.  In fact, here's a Palmer himself demoing "room scale" tracking on the rift at E3. Look at the tiny space he stays in, and notice that he never turns his back to the camera. Apparently that's all it can do. Meanwhile, skip to halfway into this video, and you'll see a guy with a Vive developer's kit with a desk on one end of the room with his Lighthouse units on the desk, and he's able to get up and walk to the opposite end of the room without losing tracking.

So, point being, if a developer makes a game for a full roomscale space, it's probable that Rift simply won't be able to do that. Whereas Vive will have no trouble accomodating the smaller, directional spaces Rift can handle.

Do only far-sighted people have to use their glasses with the headset on, or do near-sighted people also have to wear them?

I haven't read anything specifically about near vs far sightedness for any of the headsets, but I'm nearsighted, and when I demod Gear VR, I took off the glasses and it wasn't a problem. Because the screen is four inches from your face.

[Rose]

The rift has adjustable focus, though I had trouble with the cardboard.

[Graknorke]

Thought I'd heard from somewhere that the Rift uses lenses to make the light seem like it's coming from a bigger distance than it actually is, so that it feels more natural or whatever.

[Rose]

I does. They all do. Even still, at least with google cardboard, my friend who's near sighted, can use it without glasses, while I still have to hold it a bit away from my face for it to not be blurry.

[Cthulhu]

It's going to be really hard not to get an oculus rift when the commercial version comes out.

[Neonivek]

Ehhh the current virtual reality war feels a lot like the current 3d war...

It is a gimmick kept alive simply because people are forcing it.

At least VR glasses are FAR FAR better then current 3d glasses.

[Spehss _]

ptw and catch up on later.

[Cthulhu]

Ehhh the current virtual reality war feels a lot like the current 3d war...

It is a gimmick kept alive simply because people are forcing it.

At least VR glasses are FAR FAR better then current 3d glasses.

Is it?  Ultra-low latency 3d VR is pretty huge, there's a ton of applications for it and a ton of markets that'd want to use it.

Supposedly the initial run of the Rift is going to be sold at cost, Facebook has the capital reserve to do it too.

[LordBucket]

It's going to be really hard not to get an oculus rift when the commercial version comes out.

I'm not so sure. If all the various announcements are to be believed, it looks like Vive is going to beat the Rift to market by 2-6 months. And it looks like it's going to be better hardware. And Valve is going to be pushing it on Steam. In fact, there's already a Vive portal on Steam. So Vive is going to have a huge head start marketing directly to the 125 million PC users who are gamers...and who are most likely to be the people who both want a VR heasdet and actually have a computer capable of running one.

If they get a foothold in the market and developers start making games that require Vive's capabilities that Rift lacks, suddenly the Rift is going to seem much less attractive when it eventually reaches the market.

Supposedly the initial run of the Rift is going to be sold at cost, Facebook has the capital reserve to do it too.

Yes. That's the only thing the Rift has going for it right now. It's going to be cheaper. But, they're choosing to be gimmicky about that. The Oculus Touch controller will not be shipping with the Rift. You'll have to buy it separately, and it won't even be available until Q2 2016 and we don't know how much it's going to cost.

So yes you probably pay more if you go Vive, but you get better hardware, now, with the native controller included, now. If you go Rift, that means waiting to get the cheaper, not-as-good hardware, then going without hand tracking for an extra 6 months and hoping that the cost of Oculus Touch when it shows up doesn't eat up the money you saved by buying the Rift.

[Cthulhu]

I dunno if hte room-scale full experience is quite what I'm looking for though.  My main interest is in the flight sims and such that don't really need all that hardware.  You really need some kind of headtracking for simming and the cheaper Rift is the more attractive it is next to something like TrackIR

Though those system requirements are pretty hefty :S  I guess it makes sense, though I was expecting the smaller screens to have a smaller number of pixels.  Two 90hz screens at 1080p is pretty intense.  Dunno if my GTX 660 can take it, even if it is the 3gb version.

[LordBucket]

LordBucket reviews google cardboard



So I bought a V.2 google cardboard headset for $20 and I've been playing with it for the past hour or two.

It's...neat, I guess. But the experience is not overwhelmingly better than viewing 360 degree youtube videos on your phone. Yes phone, not computer. So you can turn your body around to look at things rather than use your mouse.

I do have a number of observations to report:

 * It was not a problem wearing glasses under the headset.

 * Mechanically, it's an incredible nuisance selecting content on your phone while out of the headset, the starting it, switching to stereoscopic mode, then sticking the phone into the headset and putting on without touching the screen and bumping it out of fullscreen and/or stereoscopic mode, then pulling it out again after a 2 minute experience. Apparently the original cardboard design included a magnetic button that could be used as a selector button. Mine did not come with such a button, requiring a regular in-and-out of my phone, and occasionally reaching a finger inside the viewing to tap the screen. This was a nuisance.

 * It's disorienting the first couple times taking the headset off. It's very easy to completely lose track of which way you're facing in real life. Exterior light creeps in through the edges of the headset, and it's natural to want to turn the lights out in the room to eliminate that. And while for some experiences doing so makes little difference, for others it makes them considerably more immersive. But pulling your eyes out of VR headset into a dark room after spinning around in circles a few times is maybe not the best way to keep yourself directionally oriented in a room. Personally I never fell, but I did manage to crash into furniture the first time I did this because while I did know which way was up and down, I'd misjudged the light cues coming in from the street lights shining through my bedroom window and thought I was walking roughly 135 degrees in a different direction than I was. This disorientation quickly went away. After a couple of videos I adapted and it stopped being a problem. But the first time you pull off the headset be aware you might not be facing the direction you think you are. And even doing it with lights on at first, the transition to lights out may benefit from additional caution.

 * The content developers are very obviously terribly unfamiliar with this new medium.  Fully two thirds of the experiences I've tried I found frustrating because design choices were made that generally spoiled them. Cameras placed at knee level so you're looking up at everything. Inability to cross the 180 up/down threshold so that if you try to look up and turn around, the view just stops then suddenly jumps. Experiences that were obviously created by taking multiple cameras and blending their recordings into a single product....poorly, resulting in obvious blur lines where the videos meet.

Related, a lot people are making content that is highly directional. All the action takes place in a single 60 degree view, so there's never any point in turning around unless you want to look at the walls. Scene changes that change where the interesting things are happening so you have to wildly look around to figure out where the interesting thing is. And sometimes when they [itry to avoid these mistakes, they do it badly. For example, I saw one horror video where you're in the room with a panicking girl. And if you watch the girl, you don't see the killer walking past the window 90 degrees away. But if you watch the killer, you don't see the girl moving from where she was standing so when you go back she's simply gone.

This is obviously a new medium and it's going to take content developers some time to adapt to it.

 * After a while, I found that my experience of the real world while not looking through the headset took on a certain quality that resembled that of my experience with the headset on. The infamous "the real world seems fake" phenomenon. It wasn't scary, nor did it evoke a sense of existential dread, nor did it last very long. But the sensation was very distinct when it happened.

 * I also walked away with a mild headache and a sensation inside my skull near the left occipital lobe. i think simply from the eyestrain. You basically end up crossing your eyes to look at a screen two inches from your face, but because of the 3d illusion it doesn't "feel" like you're crossing your eyes until you take it of.  The headache went away pretty quickly. I expect that with regular use your eye muscles would adapt and it would stop being a problem. However, I'm also reminded of some of the concerns about VR goggles causing your brain to use your eyes differently, and after an hour in and out of VR, I'm thinking it's possible there might be something to that. I suppose sooner or later there will be brain studies to see if human the human hippocampus shuts down the way animal brains apparently do in VR, but either way...I wouldn't be completely surprised if there are some possible health and long term vision concerns here.



The verdict

While I'm sorry to say so, I can't recommend anyone bother with google cardboard. I mean, sure. Go ahead. Why not? It's $20. There are some <$3 models if you want the older design. But the overall experience of simply watching 360 degree youtube videos on your phone is generally better than watching them with cardboard. Not always. A few were better. For example, this Eve Online video was pretty neat using cardboard with the lights out. But even so, I got bored halfway through and didn't finish it.

And many videos that are neat withoit using cardboard are definitely worse with it. For example, the various K-Pop dancing girl videos are much better without cardboard because for whatever reason with cardboard you're positioned about two feet lower and find yoruself looking up at the girls like a child. Or, for example, this Discovery animal video, which I found to be heartwarming without cardboard, when the animals swim by and reach out to touch you. Whereas from the angle with cardboard, the viewing angle seemed to at times be from their mouth, which was not nearly as cute. This likely relates to the particular dimensions of my Samsung Galaxy 6 phone. A differently-sized phone might fit into the slot in a way that gives a better view. But in my case, very rarely did cardboard add positively to the experience in comparison to watching on the same phone but without cardboard.

[LordBucket]

LordBucket reviews GearVR



So I went to Best Buy and demod GearVR today.

Th good

 * The tracking is flawless. Apparently there's a gyroscope inside that is more precise than that in a phone, and the result is noticeable. With cardboard, from time to time the video stutters slightly when you turn your head. Gear was flawless.

 * It looks nice

 * It has a strap

The not so good

 * I found it to be uncomfortable to wear. It's possible the vendor rep simply adjusted it poorly, but from what I felt, it's not something I would want to wear for hours.

 * The lenses sit so closely to your eyes that it's very unlikely anyone would would be able to wear glasses with it on. I couldn't fit mine inside. It's so snug t hat I suspect if you happened to have unusually long eyelashes, they might brush up against the lenses.

 * There is no "in and out" capability. It is exclusively a swivel experience. If you move your head forward, you don't get closer to anything.

 * ~40 minutes after having done a ~5 minute demo, I still have a headache. Maybe due to eyestrain from having not worn glasses during the experience. But I can not wear my glasses for 5 minutes, and I don't get headaches from it. This gave me a headache.


That's pretty much it. It's better than google cardboard. But not a whole lot better, at least from what I saw. If you happen to have a Samsung phone that it's compatible with, sure, go for it. It's only $99. At least it will be when it's available. Apparently they've completely sold out and you can't even order them online right now.

But if you're only going to buy one headset, based on my experience I would recommend that you wait until Vive or Rift are available. We don't know how much they'll cost yet, but we'll probably know within a month or two. once the option becomes available to buy a VR headset that has the ability to track forward and back motion in addition to turning, and to have useful interaction besides a single button press, I suspect that your Gear VR will see little use.