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[LordBucket]

Morpheus is destined to fail, mostly because, unlike Rift or Vive, a game that runs with Morpheus must be built entirely to run with Morpheus

I wouldn't think that would be a deal breaker, given that Morpheus is intended for consoles. Console games in general are written specifically to accommodate their specific hardware. Morpheus will simply be a hardware accessory used by some games. Lots of console games have done this and there are plenty of precedents to look at: the nintendo lightgun, the arkanoid controller, DDR dance pads, guitar hero guitars, etc.

[Vilanat]

AR vs VR is a bet we can only speculate about and there are good arguments made for both sides. Personally, i think that AR will prevail and not by a small degree.

I can totally imagine a school purchasing 20 Hololenses and having history lessons as a "school trip" through ancient egypt, or geology lessons where mountains form and rise around the children. i can't see that going with VR because its a big helmet which, as of now, doesn't allow the teacher to monitor the children.

I can already imagine myself playing a construction game with my kid where he just shovel sand and build stuff with me around our living room, i can't see that with VR because there is no replacement for human eye contact and gestures. i can imagine a whole family sitting in front of a blank wall watching a 3D movie wearing hololenses like devices, yet i can't picture it happening with VR precisely because it separates the person from the environment and wouldn't allow grabbing popcorn while watching, for a little silly yet important example.

If an AR like device could easily and quickly transform into VR (Like what CastAR are trying to do), then i have no doubt that such a device will win over VR even though it might be inferior to a specified VR set.

[alexandertnt]

I think AR is more likely to be commercially successful, largely due to the potential non-game applications.

I still think VR is very cool (and cooler for games than AR), but when I think about it, it has some limitations for games that might limit it to being a complement to current display/controller tech.

It only really seems to give full benefit to games with a first person perspective, games using a different perspective such as a top-down don't seem likely to benefit beyond being used as a screen. It also seems to mostly benefit from when the actions you take in the game resemble actions that you take in real life.

Something like Super Meat Boy, for example, isn't really going to benefit from it beyond being a big (and awkward to use) screen.

Still, I see VR finding at least a healthy niche market.

[LordBucket]

i can't see that going with VR because its a big helmet which, as of now, doesn't allow the teacher to monitor the children.

Why not? Create virtual representations of the teacher and children in the virtual experience. Vive's camera setup is specifically capable of that tracking multiple headsets in the same room. And VR would be better than AR in your scenario, because even though you could have everyone in the same classroom participate, you wouldn't have to. You could have distance learning field trips where students from anywhere in the world  are all taken through the same virtual experience by a teacher that isn't in the same room with any of them.

It only really seems to give full benefit to games with a first person perspective, games using a different perspective such as a top-down don't seem likely to benefit beyond being used as a screen. It also seems to mostly benefit from when the actions you take in the game resemble actions that you take in real life.

That is a definite issue that developers are going to have to adapt to. Entire genres and game models and interfaces just aren't going to work very well in VR. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes a couple years for them to adapt.

[Kitsune]

Personally? Morpheus doesn't interest me. I'm a PC gamer. Rift seems great, but I dislike facebook, and the immersion of being able to walk around with the Vive appeals to me. At the same time, the Nimble Sense hardware seems superior to Valve's handsets which remind me of wii controllers. And Hololense? I think Microsoft doesn't get it. But in a few years they might have caught on and overtaken everyone. We'll see.

Yeah I share a lot of this thinking (walking around with Vive does not appeal as much with me but that's mostly it). but i still love all those links you have in your posts.

Here's a video of a guy playing WoW by thinking at a cap, for example. But I think the write side is still not very good. Picking up thoughts seems to be easier than delivering images.

This personally makes me hopeful for nerve gear because the video is years old and that makes me hopeful for what the have done better and also this link after watching the video look at the spoiler

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Can you count how many times he cuts his arm off?

but the video also makes me sad because it's months old and I can't find a word from him after the video.

[Reelya]

There's no reason that AR can't splice in a remote player, who could be using either AR or VR, I don't see that it makes too much difference. A hololens-like classroom, with some kids telepresent via VR would be perfectly workable. It's feasible that there might not even be any other computers (other than handhelds) or even desks in such a room.

What Vilanat said about headsets which are both AR and VR capable sounds interesting. I think being able to switch to real-world view with a single command will have benefits over having to yank off a big helmet to do anything.

[wierd]

Waaaaaay back in the day, I owned a Forte VFX1.

(I got it second hand for maybe 300$.. Been a long time, I forget what I paid. I just know it wasn't full price, but WAS the full kit)

I am going to hold off on this latest crop of VR headsets. I learned from the VFX1 that even with individually adjustable optics, my eyes are so different from each other, and my astigmatism so pronounced at the short focal distances, that I get eyestrain and blurry vision within minutes of use.

I suppose that if they incorporated some kind of prismatic LCD layer with a FFT algorithm running on it to purposefully change the focal distance of the light, and use eye tracking (actually, iris contraction metrics) to control this layer, I might be able to use a VR headset.  However, I have not heard of any trying anything like that.

[Moghjubar]

That Vive headset seems fairly impractical currently... but with a few modifications to the hand-thingies and some additional dev it could potentially make an awesome in-person 3d-modeling device.

[miauw62]

Morpheus is destined to fail, mostly because, unlike Rift or Vive, a game that runs with Morpheus must be built entirely to run with Morpheus

I wouldn't think that would be a deal breaker, given that Morpheus is intended for consoles. Console games in general are written specifically to accommodate their specific hardware. Morpheus will simply be a hardware accessory used by some games. Lots of console games have done this and there are plenty of precedents to look at: the nintendo lightgun, the arkanoid controller, DDR dance pads, guitar hero guitars, etc.

The fact that console games hug so close to the hardware is part of the problem. You'd need to effectively cut the graphics quality in half, since you need to render twice and console games are always pushing consoles to the limit.

Also, how many of those examples require a game to be designed for it? If you properly separate input and game logic, adding support for new input devices isn't that hard.
Those controllers are also gimmicks for a few games, where you would want something like the Morpheus to be available for almost everything.

[DJ]

I very much doubt that. I'm guessing VR is going to overwhelm and dominate the gaming industry. It will probably take a few years even for game developers to let go of old design models and adapt to the new hardware. Lots of industry staples, even like menus aren't going to work as well. It will probably take a few years. But give it time and I think 2d gaming will be like gaming without a mouse. Yes, you can do it, some games don't require it...but it's definitely the norm for a PC game to use a mouse.

I very much doubt that. We've had 3D modelling capabilities since we invented modelling, and yet to this day vast majority of schematics are in 2D, because 2D is simply so much clearer. And the major difference between headsets and mice is that mice are ergonomic, which is why they're so successful. Constant head movement, on the other hand, is literally a pain in the neck.

[Sergarr]

I very much doubt that. I'm guessing VR is going to overwhelm and dominate the gaming industry. It will probably take a few years even for game developers to let go of old design models and adapt to the new hardware. Lots of industry staples, even like menus aren't going to work as well. It will probably take a few years. But give it time and I think 2d gaming will be like gaming without a mouse. Yes, you can do it, some games don't require it...but it's definitely the norm for a PC game to use a mouse.

I very much doubt that. We've had 3D modelling capabilities since we invented modelling, and yet to this day vast majority of schematics are in 2D, because 2D is simply so much clearer. And the major difference between headsets and mice is that mice are ergonomic, which is why they're so successful. Constant head movement, on the other hand, is literally a pain in the neck.

+1. I see no way VR is going to make any foothold in 1) most strategy games, both real time and turn based, 2) small time-wasters (usually Flash based) and 3) basically any other game which doesn't have a 1st person view or doesn't use it as default (that includes most MMORPGs).

Mouse is useful because it gives you precision of a hand movement with minimal exhaustion - because your hand is constantly resting. Keyboard, on the other hand, gives you universality of words. VR is basically a Power Glove - something which looks extremely cool to use, but it's actually pretty crappy in long-term use.

[Graknorke]

VR will be something that big studios can afford to use to show off how great their stuff is. I doubt that it's gong to catch on in general though. It's expensive, has ergonomics issues, and isn't even appropriate for a decent number of genres of games. First person shooters sure. Anything with an overhead or even third person perspective though and it's not really so great any more.

[Frumple]

... mind you, if/when we get to the point of a universal mind/machine interface, VR et al might actually be a bit more palatable from the ergonomics standpoint. Wouldn't have to move around, then. On top of all the other neat potentialities.

Bit further off, though. And it's not like fairly active control systems haven't done fairly well already, as the Wii shows off well enough...

[mainiac]

Mouse is useful because it gives you precision of a hand movement with minimal exhaustion - because your hand is constantly resting. Keyboard, on the other hand, gives you universality of words. VR is basically a Power Glove - something which looks extremely cool to use, but it's actually pretty crappy in long-term use.

Isn't this a good thing?  You move around a lot and get exercise?

Personally I think it would be neat to see a first person shooter game where the challenge isn't lining up a crosshair against an obligingly stationary target but running from cover to cover in a battlefield full of explosions.

[wierd]

I very much doubt that. I'm guessing VR is going to overwhelm and dominate the gaming industry. It will probably take a few years even for game developers to let go of old design models and adapt to the new hardware. Lots of industry staples, even like menus aren't going to work as well. It will probably take a few years. But give it time and I think 2d gaming will be like gaming without a mouse. Yes, you can do it, some games don't require it...but it's definitely the norm for a PC game to use a mouse.

I very much doubt that. We've had 3D modelling capabilities since we invented modelling, and yet to this day vast majority of schematics are in 2D, because 2D is simply so much clearer. And the major difference between headsets and mice is that mice are ergonomic, which is why they're so successful. Constant head movement, on the other hand, is literally a pain in the neck.

This is incorrect.  Big industrial giants like BOEING, Lockheed Martin, and pals have switched to "Model Based Definition" (MBD) type drafting standards, and AWAY from 2D prints, citing reductions in costs, reductions in necessary training, improved manufacturing timetables, and increased levels of intuitive display.