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Author Topic: Games Where You're the Bad Guy  (Read 25603 times)

mainiac

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2015, 12:23:05 am »

(in that you're the bad thing fighting the bad government.)

2. Your opponent is good, they are doing the right thing by standing against you and this happens over the course of the game. It's not enough for one sequence or level where you go up against a good guy. This is where a lot of games fail. Going back to the Grand Theft Auto example the police could be called good guys but your primary antagonists are other criminals.
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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #61 on: February 23, 2015, 01:47:52 am »

Might as well get more specific with evil-compatible 4X titles beyond Civilization:

Galactic Civilizations II has good, evil, and neutral-leaning races, as well as a morality system consisting primarily of random events which can be responded to in one of three alignment-matching ways. Fascinatingly, the good options often have genuine costs and the evil options typically have tangible benefits, which I thought adds a nice layer of gravity to the choices, as opposed to just asking you which colors you'd prefer to wear.

Endless Legend also has a variety of races, but goes a bit deeper with the ravening horrors category. One race is an ever-hungry swarm of plague bugs, another is a cult seeking to subjugate everything and destroy the legacy of the masters that abandoned them. There's also independent villages to raze, bribe, or convince, and on the former plus rebuilding or either of the latter two, become subservient to your empire.

As another point for evil, and better yet the quality of the game itself, the races really do play totally differently. Pretty sure the swarm has some kind of cannibal tech for sacrificing population to increase food production and happiness, and they literally cannot be at peace with anyone (Cold War, ie staring at each other warily, is fine). They also suffer food penalties, in line with their endless hunger, and so have to... compensate, somehow. The cult, meanwhile, cannot found or conquer cities, and has to spread by converting independent villages (and, should they find themselves at war, can only respond territory-wise with scorched earth).

Alpha Centauri is ancient, famous, and technically of Civilization lineage, so I probably don't need to mention it, but I feel it's worth special mention because of the depth of the heinous things you can do. You can implement various social policies/priorities, some of which are of dubious morality (Police State and Fundamentalism come to mind). You can utilize the local alien wildlife against enemies, which are stated to fight by instilling paralyzing terror and then burrowing into their skulls to lay eggs. You can of course raze cities, there's a module to equip your units with nerve gas (+25% Attack Bonus! Woooo!), and the ultimate weapon of the future, planet busters, severely deform the terrain where they strike, making it possible to bury enemy cities in the sea. When that fails, of course, they still reduce population by half or something heinous like that. There's also some nasty probe team (black ops) options for population decrease and so forth, and terraforming lets you some insidious things (drying out downwind neighbors, gradually sinking terrain into the sea) if you're patient and can get near their territory. Oh, and when your people riot? There's an option to "nerve staple" them in order to get things in line for a bit.

As a cherry to all of this, you have a reputation based on a combination of this and breaking treaties, so it's not like other leaders won't acknowledge when you exterminate a city or deploy nerve gas against enemy forces. Alien worms to the skull does not, amusingly, appear to be covered by these UN conventions.


There's a lot of other games I could mention where you play as evil races or do evil things, but in a lot of cases it doesn't really show through, or shows through only occasionally. In Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic, for instance, you can play as dark elves, which are evil and unpleasant. In fact, they're so evil and unpleasant that they suffer a morale penalty when owned by or placed into the same army as good races, like halflings. Then there's the undead, who suffer from similar issues, but are so evil they also suffer penalties for having to deal with neutral beings, like humans. That's right, they're so evil they can't stand anything that isn't evil. On the action end, you can migrate the native race out of a city to make room for your chosen people, or raze it entirely. If you're a Death Mage with the right spell, you can even reanimate the ruins into a city of the dead afterwards.

Trouble being, other than that it's largely a matter of assumption. Are undead cities any worse to live in than goody-two-shoes elf cities? One would think so, but there's not a lot of evidence to support that notion; they both build the same buildings, have morale issues, and so on. The idea that exiling a city's population to make way for your own would be excessive is also be nice, but it's kind of a standard feature, not an evil-centric thing. Razing cities at least reduces your fame, but again, not especially good or evil. So... most of the evil in that game is a matter of background fluff or these occasional things you can do every now and then.


Actually, I'll give an honorable mention to Orcs Must Die! 2. I haven't played the first one, so I don't know how much explanation they gave in that one, but in this one you butcher wave after wave of orcs and related creatures because... er, well, because they're invading through the portals, presumably trying to get into your world where they'll... do bad things, presumably. And you need the portals open because that's where magic comes from, or something, so... long story short, the meat grinders are totally reasonable and justified.

So yeah, probably wouldn't make the list for a couple reasons, but has that common and amusing "wait, I'm a ruthless butcher" vibe to it, made all the more literal by the methods you tend to use.
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Shadowgandor

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #62 on: February 23, 2015, 03:50:52 am »

Stubbs: The Rebel Zombie without a Pulse. It's one of the very rare games where you play as a zombie and be the start of a zombie apocalypse.
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EagleV

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2015, 04:30:54 am »

There's also that game where you play as the rogue AI spreading around the planet, where you buy out servers and hideout, can't recall the name, although it's only tangentially this.
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There was this game, though not on pc, where you were an alien trying to destroy humanity. Google tells me it's literally called "Destroy all Humans". Not sure if that's what you're looking for though.
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Mech#4

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2015, 05:35:08 am »

Stubbs: The Rebel Zombie without a Pulse. It's one of the very rare games where you play as a zombie and be the start of a zombie apocalypse.

Ah, yeah. Stubbs' motivation is solely revenge and, while you opponents are stupid morons, they are still humans. it's quite a silly game, played for laughs in a 50s suburbia/Zeerust style.

Of course it's not a very long game, and isn't an RPG but it's a fun game nonetheless.
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Xantalos

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2015, 06:02:54 am »

I am interested in this.
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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2015, 10:02:15 am »

Stubbs: The Rebel Zombie without a Pulse. It's one of the very rare games where you play as a zombie and be the start of a zombie apocalypse.

Ah, yeah. Stubbs' motivation is solely revenge and, while you opponents are stupid morons, they are still humans. it's quite a silly game, played for laughs in a 50s suburbia/Zeerust style.

Of course it's not a very long game, and isn't an RPG but it's a fun game nonetheless.

Some months ago, I played the coop campaign with a friend and a good store of beer. It's a large, slightly buggy, mostly empty game with sparse music and rather muddy graphics. On the other hand, it's a TON of fun to play together, and not in the same way that other otherwise bad games are made fun with friends. It's a game that feels specifically balanced and designed for coop, but SP does work.

Also, you are totally a bad guy often eating good guys, though the final boss is *spoiler* another bad guy. So it's about like Prototype in that regard. Especially the eating.
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nenjin

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2015, 12:04:30 pm »

Quote
2. Your opponent is good, they are doing the right thing by standing against you and this happens over the course of the game. It's not enough for one sequence or level where you go up against a good guy. This is where a lot of games fail. Going back to the Grand Theft Auto example the police could be called good guys but your primary antagonists are other criminals.

Except in Prototype's case, your opponents are both trying to stop you (the "right thing") while also being horrible to the city and citizens at large. So I don't really think they qualify as the good guys. Maybe the cops on the street, but anyone in Blackwatch is pretty much a certified bad guy.
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2015, 12:48:34 pm »

There's UFO: The Two Sides, which is a multiplayer remake of the original X-COM game, which allowed players to control X-COM or the Aliens. Unfortunately, development was halted for possible copyright reasons at version .98 or .99, which notably lacked proper AI for X-COM. Still, there's a few download links still floating around and you can direct connect with another person to play the game. The save system is kind of funky and one player dropping will screw you out of progress you've made since your last save, but it's good fun.

mastahcheese

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2015, 01:08:33 pm »

Oh yeah, Stubbs the Zombie was great.

And yeah, most of the people you killed were cops trying to do their job, or high schoolers. The few truly bad people don't make up for the massive atrocities you commit on the innocent populace.
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scrdest

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2015, 01:14:48 pm »

Quote
2. Your opponent is good, they are doing the right thing by standing against you and this happens over the course of the game. It's not enough for one sequence or level where you go up against a good guy. This is where a lot of games fail. Going back to the Grand Theft Auto example the police could be called good guys but your primary antagonists are other criminals.

Except in Prototype's case, your opponents are both trying to stop you (the "right thing") while also being horrible to the city and citizens at large. So I don't really think they qualify as the good guys. Maybe the cops on the street, but anyone in Blackwatch is pretty much a certified bad guy.
Eh, in the first one they were more like really assholish good guys, kinda along the lines of Hero Antagonist if the hero was, say, the Punisher (or, judging by their willingness to compromise containment - which is to say, they'd rather kill their own, Rorschach). Definitely would bite the dust in a more black and white setting and they did start out cartoonishly evil with a not-Tuskegee-nosiree, but by the time of the actual game their goal IS to stop a zombie mutant plague. At any cost.
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nenjin

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2015, 01:30:50 pm »

To me it's sorta like "k, we created this super biological entity with willful disregard to the consequences and now it's all gone tits up. Start dropping the thermite."

So while they're trying to stop it true, they're essentially just cleaning up the mess they created after putting the whole population at risk. Doesn't really make them the good guys IMO. More like covert ops with an at least understandable objective but draconian and ebil-gubernment in execution. It's been years since I played it though, I think I'll reinstall it for lulz and atomic elbow drops.
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Virtz

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2015, 01:49:09 pm »

Couple more I remembered:

Tie Fighter - you play as a space pilot in service of the Empire.

Wizardry 4 - you play as the antagonist of the first game in the series, an evil archmage.

SWAT 2 - strategy RTS where you get to play as either the cops or the bad guys.

Heroes of Might & Magic 2 - you were able to go with the bad guy campaign, as well as start with the good guy and then switch sides midway through, betraying your initial choice.
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Neonivek

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2015, 02:21:28 pm »

Wizardry 4 I kind of love for attempting to do a plotline that no other game has done before

As well Wizardry 4 foreshadows future games in the series... YEARS in advance. You thought all that odd sci-fi came out of nowhere? NOPE! Wizardry 4 foreshadowed it long in advance.
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Oscuro1987

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Re: Games Where You're the Bad Guy
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2015, 02:49:52 pm »

[...]

SWAT 2 - strategy RTS where you get to play as either the cops or the bad guys.

[...]

Oh wow you're right, I didn't remember one could play as the bad guys in that game. :o
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