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Author Topic: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day 13: Unlucky For Some - SCUM B TEAM WIN  (Read 109019 times)

origamiscienceguy

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #585 on: March 03, 2015, 04:46:41 pm »

Tiruin, since we know that TDS changeling you, shouldn't you know what his initial powers were?
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Tiruin

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #586 on: March 03, 2015, 04:50:32 pm »

Tiruin, since we know that TDS changeling you, shouldn't you know what his initial powers were?
...I posted everything in that log.
Considering the first instance--no, I have no idea who exactly did what, as it REALLY DOES SEEM instantaneous. :I
I mean seriously. Look at that log! I can't make head or tail from the first iteration(?) other than I got hit by 2 Changelings.

Which reminds me on public query...
NQT: If a person gets hit by multiple changelings, what happens to their role and to the changeling-sender's role? Do both people who targeted that person get a copy of their target's role?
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Tiruin

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #587 on: March 03, 2015, 05:07:18 pm »

Edit: Found that 'delete' post -_-
It was in an 'Error' tab. I am glad for browser history.




Tiruin, what happened to your three changelings?
...Like I know? :v
Basically, the log I posted was what happened in chronological order, without me doing anything whatsoever.

But if you want me to guess...I have no idea. I think someone *wiped it out but the proceeding posts of today make me doubt that.
*5 - Delete (One of the target's powers or autos (determined randomly) is permanently removed.)


...
NQT: If Delete is used on someone and there are multiples of the determined power/auto, does only one of the stack get permanently removed or does the whole similarity get deleted?
If I had any idea at all as to what just happened, then I'd mention it. Currently, I'm powerless but my vote!
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Deus Asmoth

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #588 on: March 03, 2015, 05:10:52 pm »

Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else? It also seems entirely possible to me that a town player could be trying to either get lucky and put guilty conscience on one of the scum, or they're just seeing how players react to getting the flaw. Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.
Except neither hector13 nor Tiruin strike me as anyone's top scum picks.
Somewhat irrelevant considering they wouldn't have known they were targeting either of them until they mentioned it in the thread.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #589 on: March 03, 2015, 05:40:46 pm »

Tiruin: I'm not forgetting that, but I'm not able to pin down who's doing it right now.  That may be another member of that scumteam or a townie or a member of the second scumteam (if we have one).  Right now, I'm more worried about dealing with whoever is trying to screw everyone else out of voting.

Deus Asmoth: Flaws can only be taken at the beginning of the game, so short of having another scum member besmirch you with it again (which would put them in the line of fire for this lynch, so it wouldn't make a difference) or you get REALLY lucky with a curse, you're not getting it back.  As such, that particular argument is invalid.  If a town player is actually doing it, they are being a bad, bad townie: removing a vote from the town is a MUCH bigger deal than removing a vote from the scum, since the town is the majority over the scum.  When I'm looking at a negative-impact power usage for towniness, there are three questions I ask: will it's use on a townie hurt the town, will it's use on a scum hurt the scum, and will it give the user a personal benefit.  The third question is because if a power does not personally benefit the user, it is more likely to hurt town than scum in the hands of a townie.  The answer to these questions for besmirching guilty conscience is yes, not really, and no.  Thus, if someone ACTUALLY did that as a townie, they are a bad, bad townie and didn't think it through.  Additionally, while scum players will treat guilty conscience like unable to vote with regards to using their vote (since they either know who the other scum are or know who some of the scum are and don't want to risk hitting a town), a town player has two options: treat it as if unable to vote and look like a scum, or continue voting and risk a double-kill if a mislynch happens.  Because the town is in the majority, it is more likely for the power to hit town if used by a town AND it hurts the town more because the vote is still the primary weapon of the town, since it's the one weapon we have that is difficult to get around.

hector13: There are POSSIBLE holes, but I'm using Occam's razor here.  I'll apply it to my theory of the scum using besmirch to your theories.
Vote stealing: Theoretically possible, and certainly a possibility re: Varee's vote not showing up, but it doesn't discount my theory: to the contrary, it strengthens the idea that there is a vote-fuckery scumteam in play.  While it would mean that flabort is not necessarily cleared, if the scumteam stole his vote why would he claim unable to vote when he didn't have it?  Lying is, under most circumstances, an anti-town proposition.
One curse and one besmirch: Also a possibility, but Occam's Razor.  The odds are, particularly since they happened on different game days, that it was the same person striking twice with a besmirch.
Tiruin and TDS lying: Theoretically a possibility, but this would require TDS to be in on it, meaning that TDS and Tiruin are on the same scumteam.  Right now, I'm more inclined to believe that it's someone else, but this is a possibility to consider.

Persus13: First of all, defending another player from a legitimate attack is scummy as shit.  Second of all, Shakerag's answer depended on an assumption he made about OSG rather than anything OSG said in the thread, and OSG has already given his answer.  Additionally, I find scumhunting the "normal way" to be extremely inefficient, and what I'm doing right now (action analysis) is how town won the first CYOM and Supernatural 7, in the first case lynching Deathsword/you because you were the most likely converter and the second by figuring out who the possibilities were and who was clean.  Both of these have some room for error, because one was a CYOM and the other we didn't know what the bad guy's powers were, but we went with the most likely option and won the game that way.

hector13 again: I didn't say it cleared anyone entirely, but certain people are cleared of being the one distributing guilty conscience.  Additionally, Tiruin was one of the people who GAINED guilty conscience, so unless she's lying about that (which would nullify my entire argument to begin with, so it wouldn't matter whether or not TDS was telling the truth with regards to my argument), she's cleared of being the one doing it.  Do you believe that she is lying about gaining guilty conscience?

Everyone: Even if I can't post, I can see everything you are posting if I have access to wifi, thus why I got back to you so soon after school ended.  I wrote this up as your posts came in, I just wasn't able to post directly to the forums (I get your posts in my email).  Also, I see everything you put in spoilers, so even though anything that you said in spoilers I had already written in my post you shouldn't do that in the future to "avoid influencing the response".

TheDarkStar

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #590 on: March 03, 2015, 07:09:41 pm »

Persus lol wut?
I explained that he had failed to mention that he'd kept his other powers, and listed his flaws as if he'd just gained them. This made me think he'd been changeling'd. I never mentioned him using it.
Also, wasn't one of his flaws dense and another mercenary? Can't check now, at work, but I would think that if he had those flaws, he'd be unable to use changeling on Tiruin. TDS is a better lynch choice, especially if you suspect he's in a team with annyone

Wait what? You're saying that I'm scummy because Persus thinks you're on a scumteam with me based on a false assumption? If I didn't have Guilty Conscience, I'd vote for you.

Anyway, I also ended up with Guilty Conscience this morning and so I'm going to Unvote before I forget.
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Tiruin

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #591 on: March 03, 2015, 07:15:10 pm »

Anyway, I also ended up with Guilty Conscience this morning and so I'm going to Unvote before I forget.
'This morning' = when you woke up and checked the forum or...at the start of D2 or...?
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #592 on: March 03, 2015, 07:22:00 pm »

When I got Changelinged near the start of Day 2, but I skimmed my role a bit too fast and missed it until just now.
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Persus13

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #593 on: March 03, 2015, 07:25:41 pm »

Persus lol wut?
I explained that he had failed to mention that he'd kept his other powers, and listed his flaws as if he'd just gained them. This made me think he'd been changeling'd. I never mentioned him using it.
Also, wasn't one of his flaws dense and another mercenary? Can't check now, at work, but I would think that if he had those flaws, he'd be unable to use changeling on Tiruin. TDS is a better lynch choice, especially if you suspect he's in a team with annyone
Unvote. Okay, thanks, I misunderstood that post then. Yes, he had dense and mercenary. You can vote now, but couldn't day 1, correct? Is there any additional reasons to yesterday why you're voting TDS?

Persus13: First of all, defending another player from a legitimate attack is scummy as shit.  Second of all, Shakerag's answer depended on an assumption he made about OSG rather than anything OSG said in the thread, and OSG has already given his answer.  Additionally, I find scumhunting the "normal way" to be extremely inefficient, and what I'm doing right now (action analysis) is how town won the first CYOM and Supernatural 7, in the first case lynching Deathsword/you because you were the most likely converter and the second by figuring out who the possibilities were and who was clean.  Both of these have some room for error, because one was a CYOM and the other we didn't know what the bad guy's powers were, but we went with the most likely option and won the game that way.
Yes, defending another player against a legitimate attack is pretty scummy, but so is failing to question other people's attacks unless they have a test or something going on Did OSG fail to answer your question before shakerag stepped in and did shakerag's response change how OSG would have answered?. Secondly, Super 7 we were multiple days in and an inspection role plus a bunch of claimed power roles telling us the truth about things, and CYOM we had Fortune Teller being really broken and OP causing an early mass claim. Your action analysis doesn't work because there are plenty of unaccounted for variables. Like the fact that I used up my action for D2 recalling changeling on February 27 at 10 PM EST, which is exactly the time Tiruin lost all of her changelings.

OrigamiScienceGuy: you suddenly switched to voting Peradon after saying you viewed him as town when he was about to be lynched because he was giving up. This seems scummy, but more just a mistake, than a scummy thing to do. Who are your top three suspects currently?

Mask:What's to stop a scum player simply getting their guilty conscience cleansed off them before the end of the day and then buying it back from the shop the next day so they can do it to someone else? It also seems entirely possible to me that a town player could be trying to either get lucky and put guilty conscience on one of the scum, or they're just seeing how players react to getting the flaw. Someone immediately unvoting after getting besmirched would seem more likely to be scum to me.
Except neither hector13 nor Tiruin strike me as anyone's top scum picks.
Somewhat irrelevant considering they wouldn't have known they were targeting either of them until they mentioned it in the thread.
Good point. Still, why would a town player randomly target players and give them guilty conscience, especially since it would also require themselves to have guilty conscience in order to do it. It would just make several players very nervous about lynching people.
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flabort

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day One - The Rain Falls Mainly On The Plain
« Reply #594 on: March 03, 2015, 07:32:20 pm »

Good Lord, TDS. No, I'm saying if he suspects us only because we could be a team, then you are the better choice because there is far more reasons to suspect you.
For example, misinterpretation of posts (Although I guess I left it open to misinterpretation this afternoon), tunneling, and now I'm back to this post:

Yep  ::) (in a few rounds, actually).

I gained and then lost two copies of Changeling. I also now have Afflicted, Mercenary, Dense, and no more XP.
So HOW did you changeling Tiruin if it costs XP for you to do so, but cannot earn any?

PPE: never mind, the post 2x^ answers it.
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #595 on: March 03, 2015, 07:38:04 pm »

OrigamiScienceGuy: you suddenly switched to voting Peradon after saying you viewed him as town when he was about to be lynched because he was giving up. This seems scummy, but more just a mistake, than a scummy thing to do. Who are your top three suspects currently?

There was a multi-page argument about my decision. I really don't feel like starting one again.

The people I think are scum:
TDS: for his complete lack of any analysis. He gives big posts with tons of information, but doesn't do anything with that information. His readlists are also not very detailed and just in general lackluster.
Varee: haven't seen any scumhunting at all.

My third pick is either Deus Asmoth and Hector13, but I am more neutral about them.
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hector13

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #596 on: March 03, 2015, 07:42:59 pm »

What are you reasons for choosing DA and I as your third choice?
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origamiscienceguy

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #597 on: March 03, 2015, 07:45:45 pm »

I am probably just a little frustrated with you for that argument we had, and I haven't seen Deus Asmoth do very  much scumhunting either.
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flabort

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #598 on: March 03, 2015, 07:46:25 pm »

pfp doublepost:
Persus: Additional reasons: I didn't like his first vote for OSG, I didn't like how when he revoted he just fabricated two more reasons, I didn't like how when he disappeared everyone changed the lynch, I didn't like the way he misinterpreted my and peradon's posts (seemingly on purpose), I don't like how he wrote the post I just quoted to make me think he'd been changeling'd at that time (Him being changeling'd at D2 start is mighty convenient, considering this is the first I heard of it).
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hector13

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Re: Choose-Your-Own-Mafias - Day Two - The-Times-They-Are-A-Changeling
« Reply #599 on: March 03, 2015, 07:49:17 pm »

Origami, I've been reasonably active, but you see me as more scummy than other people who haven't been around, and thus haven't been scumhunting? (Tiruin, Shakerag etc.)
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