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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Orange Wizard]

How meta is asking how meta this has gotten, then?

Not meta enough

[TheDarkStar]

How meta is asking how meta this has gotten, then?

Not meta enough

I'm so meta, even this acronym.

[Descan]

Only if you start citing Metapedia.

[Egan_BW]

Free will doesn't exist or not exist, it's just a particular way of looking at how things really are.

[Adragis]

so metta slow

[Loud Whispers]

Putting things in capitals actually makes it carry less weight, if you're trying to convince me, in much the same way that my ability to actually care about someone's opinion is downgraded when they use more than two exclamation points. Two might be an accidental thing, though if it's consistent I also find it suspicious.

I don't really care about winning arguments or convincing people m8, if it carries less weight it's deliberate because I'd rather have fun than get ir8   M A 8 T E

That out of the way. If you trawl the internet, you will find much the same thing, is my point.

You will also find the opposite, you're justifying a lack of standard by looking for a lack of standard

We still consider the internet acceptable to use.

To varying degrees, contrast if I sourced an encyclopedia vs an imgur macro, contrast if I sourced a medical journal vs "onlince doctor"
It's just dishonesty of the highest degree to justify lies with lies

Citations are necessary for a reason. Look at the citations.

That would be the point of my posts

Also, the average between a truth and a lie depends largely on the nature of the subject in question.

Nope, an average of a truth and a lie is a lie, there is no relativity on making falsehoods.

But that's beside the point. We aren't averaging truth and lies. We're averaging one perspective which is warped and another perspective which is warped. Two warped perspectives, if warped in opposite directions, can in fact average out to something fairly close to the truth.

Two perspectives both wrong average out to a perspective that is wrong, there is no room for compromise on what is true, least of all with two warped perspectives. If one people contests that a town was wiped out by a flood and the other contests that is was wiped out by an earthquake, and they compromise and say it was destroyed by a mudslide that was caused by both minor flooding and a small earthquake - when the town was in fact abandoned for economic reasons, you will have arrived from one lie to another and another

Wikipedia is as reliable as the internet in general is. It's not great, but there's pieces that are worth it, and dismissing anything that uses it without followup is a mistake, just as using it without followup is a mistake.

Yahweh Guru m8, there is a long list of bullshit and "Wikipedia is as reliable as the internet in general is" is on there

Wikipedia has never been a reliable source though? I mean, it's great as a general reference, but no-one, ever, has considered acceptable to cite it as a source.

This whole things started off with wikipedia used as a source

[Orange Wizard]

Okay. I added a second addendum to Rule 5: Wikipedia is not a reputable source.

[Vilanat]

You need to get that chip off your shoulder Vilanat, I mentioned her first as a tribeswoman just to step around calling her the Jewish woman or Jewess, and there are almost no other instances where I give a shit about "cultural sensitivity."
If you think I'm going to change the quotes though just to step around protecting your feelings, I stop there. The Jewish Encyclopedia backs me on this; truth trumps muh feels.

Unless you are the Islamic scholar who pinned Muhammad death on a Jew, i have no quarrel with you.

The only reason i extracted that part of your original post is because i heavily suspected that if there was a claim about Muhammad death not being natural, it would surely be pinned on a Jew, and hey, what a surprise, my suspicion was correct.

As for the validity of the claim ("truth trumps", heh ) , well, i guess for people who believe in flying horses and talking ants, believing Muhammad was poisoned to death by a Jew 3 years prior to his actual death using a poison not known to science even after 1500 years is not that unreasonable.

[Bohandas]

Okay. I added a second addendum to Rule 5: Wikipedia is not a reputable source.

But we can still quote holy texts ?!?

[Bohandas]

Putting things in capitals actually makes it carry less weight, if you're trying to convince me, in much the same way that my ability to actually care about someone's opinion is downgraded when they use more than two exclamation points. Two might be an accidental thing, though if it's consistent I also find it suspicious.

I don't really care about winning arguments or convincing people m8, if it carries less weight it's deliberate because I'd rather have fun than get ir8   M A 8 T E

Why do you keep typing like that? Is that some new cultural reference I've missed or are you having a stroke?

[TD1]

Embrace the way of the LW into your heart and, filled with its magnificence, be blessed.

In other news, a debate on the reliability of Wikipedia is not really within the interests of this thread.

Partly to distract people, partly because I'm curious: How do women believers you know (or are) respond to the story of women being made from man, and for man's delight?

[Frumple]

Varies. Some, unfortunately, accept it as truth, with all the sorts of broadly negative things you'd expect from doing so. They tend to be either rather unhappy, or displaying a happiness that is... brittle, for lack of a better word. Surprising no one with two braincells, that sort of attitude is usually pretty bad for general mental health, ha.

Others pointedly ignore it, just like they do the teaching bit, and other parts that are of such nature. They tend to be more... normal, I guess? Usual range of happiness et al, no really notable consistent behavior patterns insofar as the subject goes.

Many just don't really pay attention to it -- it's not a pointed refusal to acknowledge so much as it just doesn't really come up. For those, it's often internalized to a degree, though, especially if they're still much in the way of churchgoing and whatnot. More deference/submission/etc. towards men than towards women, and so on.

Insofar as my experience with things go, anyway. Will say it's really fucking weird to have ladies twice a guy's age and thrice their experience/etc., like, stepping aside or waiting for 'em to talk first or various shit like that. Screws with my own sensibilities pretty hard. Feels damned unnatural to have the person(s) that should be kinda' heading things or whatev' not, just 'cause there's a dick in the room.

[TD1]

I knew a woman who said she believed she should be subservient to men because of her religion, but the interesting thing for me was that she gave no sign of it. She just continued doing what any other sane person would do, but paid a sort of lip service to the idea that she was meant to assist men.

I was wondering if that was common, because it seems fairly unsettling to me, and it's also under the radar. They don't behave like it, but they still perpetuate the myth to others.

[Telgin]

The few times I've seen it come up in person, there was an almost unspoken understanding that women would say that the men ruled the household and could tell them what to do, but that it wasn't really the case.  After all, those same people would make jokes in church about how the man better watch out, because if he said the wrong thing the wife would get him when they got home.

[Arx]

Partly to distract people, partly because I'm curious: How do women believers you know (or are) respond to the story of women being made from man, and for man's delight?

And so God created Man in His own image; in the image of God He created them, male and female He created them.

So yeah.