Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Poll

What's your opinion on free will?

I am religious and believe in free will
- 71 (27.7%)
I am religious and do not believe in free will
- 10 (3.9%)
I am not religious and believe in free will
- 114 (44.5%)
I am not religious and do not believe in free will
- 61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251


Pages: 1 ... 218 219 [220] 221 222 ... 525

Author Topic: Railgun and Spirituality Discussion  (Read 684733 times)

origamiscienceguy

  • Bay Watcher
  • WELL! OK THEN!... That was fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3285 on: November 08, 2015, 08:39:40 am »

Sin is, in effect, the compulsion to go against God. It's (metaphorically) tied to "the flesh", which is why the New Testament is full of verses about casting aside your old body and so on. None of that is literal - you can safely ignore it if you like.
I thought origamiscienceguy is a biblical literalist, though, which would imply that’s not what they mean.
I do think that sin is a literal part of us on the earth. We are also tempted by Satan while we are on the earth. For example, you don't have to teach a small child how to lie.  Once we die, we receive a new body that does not have that sinful nature. If you think that that goes against free will, in heaven, we will finally see God in his full glory, and everybody will worship him day and night because it is what he deserves for how great he is.
Logged
"'...It represents the world. They [the dwarves] plan to destroy it.' 'WITH SOAP?!'" -legend of zoro (with some strange interperetation)

Teneb

  • Bay Watcher
  • (they/them) Penguin rebellion
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3286 on: November 08, 2015, 09:15:56 am »

Sin is, in effect, the compulsion to go against God. It's (metaphorically) tied to "the flesh", which is why the New Testament is full of verses about casting aside your old body and so on. None of that is literal - you can safely ignore it if you like.
I thought origamiscienceguy is a biblical literalist, though, which would imply that’s not what they mean.
I do think that sin is a literal part of us on the earth. We are also tempted by Satan while we are on the earth. For example, you don't have to teach a small child how to lie.  Once we die, we receive a new body that does not have that sinful nature. If you think that that goes against free will, in heaven, we will finally see God in his full glory, and everybody will worship him day and night because it is what he deserves for how great he is.
Heaven sounds terribly boring from that description, if worshiping the big man is all there is to do. Your description also implies there is no choice: you are there, so you must worship, you can't just do anything else, if you would still be capable of wanting to do anything else (which sounds a lot like brainwashing to me).
Logged
Monstrous Manual: D&D in DF
Quote from: Tack
What if “slammed in the ass by dead philosophers” is actually the thing which will progress our culture to the next step?

Sheb

  • Bay Watcher
  • You Are An Avatar
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3287 on: November 08, 2015, 10:57:05 am »

It's not really that you don't have free will, it's just that one option is so great everyone will choose it.

It's like if you're presented with a plate of the best nachos ever. You can choose to eat it or not, but everyone will choose to eat it.
Logged

Quote from: Paul-Henry Spaak
Europe consists only of small countries, some of which know it and some of which don’t yet.

Graknorke

  • Bay Watcher
  • A bomb's a bad choice for close-range combat.
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3288 on: November 08, 2015, 12:31:46 pm »

But isn't the reason why God doesn't come down and indisputably prove himself to all of us because that would violate free will if there's obviously only one decision anyone would make. I think it was Origami who brought it up some time.
Logged
Cultural status:
Depleted          ☐
Enriched          ☑

Telgin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Professional Programmer
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3289 on: November 08, 2015, 12:58:09 pm »

That's the argument I generally hear any time someone brings up free will or asks why God doesn't just dispel the question of His existence.

I guess free will is just irrelevant in heaven, since we'd have already been tested on Earth.  Or whatever the point of mortal life is anyway.
Logged
Through pain, I find wisdom.

origamiscienceguy

  • Bay Watcher
  • WELL! OK THEN!... That was fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3290 on: November 08, 2015, 01:34:44 pm »

Sin is, in effect, the compulsion to go against God. It's (metaphorically) tied to "the flesh", which is why the New Testament is full of verses about casting aside your old body and so on. None of that is literal - you can safely ignore it if you like.
I thought origamiscienceguy is a biblical literalist, though, which would imply that’s not what they mean.
I do think that sin is a literal part of us on the earth. We are also tempted by Satan while we are on the earth. For example, you don't have to teach a small child how to lie.  Once we die, we receive a new body that does not have that sinful nature. If you think that that goes against free will, in heaven, we will finally see God in his full glory, and everybody will worship him day and night because it is what he deserves for how great he is.
Heaven sounds terribly boring from that description, if worshiping the big man is all there is to do. Your description also implies there is no choice: you are there, so you must worship, you can't just do anything else, if you would still be capable of wanting to do anything else (which sounds a lot like brainwashing to me).
It probably does sound boring right now, but we were created to worship God. I imagine that worshiping him will be the most fulfilling and wonderful thing ever.
Logged
"'...It represents the world. They [the dwarves] plan to destroy it.' 'WITH SOAP?!'" -legend of zoro (with some strange interperetation)

TD1

  • Bay Watcher
  • Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3291 on: November 08, 2015, 03:30:13 pm »

To future, changed you, it probably will be great. To current, doesn't-want-to-spend-all-of-eternity-doing-essentially-nothing-but-praying you, it's a drag.

Rather implies that future, heavenly you is not...well, you.

Though this is a rabbit hole we've dived down a few times now.
Logged
Life before death, strength before weakness, journey before destination
  TD1 has claimed the title of Penblessed the Endless Fountain of Epics!
Sigtext!
Poetry Thread

origamiscienceguy

  • Bay Watcher
  • WELL! OK THEN!... That was fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3292 on: November 08, 2015, 04:15:14 pm »

Even here on earth, worshiping God is satisfying. Why do you think people want to go to church in the first place? It becomes a lot easier once you realize how much God loves you. He deserves all we can give him.
Logged
"'...It represents the world. They [the dwarves] plan to destroy it.' 'WITH SOAP?!'" -legend of zoro (with some strange interperetation)

Calidovi

  • Bay Watcher
  • agnus dei
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3293 on: November 08, 2015, 04:18:25 pm »

Even here on earth, worshiping God is satisfying. Why do you think people want to go to church in the first place? It becomes a lot easier once you realize how much God loves you. He deserves all we can give him.

I always assumed that the popularity of church was partly due to the "like-minded community" aspect. What does church provide that prayer alone doesn't otherwise?
Logged






origamiscienceguy

  • Bay Watcher
  • WELL! OK THEN!... That was fun.
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3294 on: November 08, 2015, 04:23:44 pm »

Even here on earth, worshiping God is satisfying. Why do you think people want to go to church in the first place? It becomes a lot easier once you realize how much God loves you. He deserves all we can give him.

I always assumed that the popularity of church was partly due to the "like-minded community" aspect. What does church provide that prayer alone doesn't otherwise?
Yes. That is also a reason, but the people *should* be coming together to worship God together. That is the "like-minded community" reason people *should* be coming. Unfortunately, I get the feeling that many Christians don't know that.
Logged
"'...It represents the world. They [the dwarves] plan to destroy it.' 'WITH SOAP?!'" -legend of zoro (with some strange interperetation)

Frumple

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Prettiest Kyuuki
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3295 on: November 08, 2015, 06:11:24 pm »

I always assumed that the popularity of church was partly due to the "like-minded community" aspect. What does church provide that prayer alone doesn't otherwise?
A priest to mangle the bible into horrible shapes, mostly, with a nice sideline of behavior explicitly contrary to the text (sup matthew 6:1-15) :V

The rest of it is pretty much entirely social, yeah. Not even about being around like-minded people, really (that helps, but churches are often quite fractious*), it's just entrenched enough in a lot of places people realistically don't have a choice but to attend if they want to have any meaningful degree of community integration. Combine that with conditioning the youth to attend and you've got a fair amount of the reason the vast majority of churchgoers go.

*Church politics are often amazing (to watch, from a distance). It's like normal clique/social maneuvering, except the people involved are entirely willing to claim each other are pawns on the devil or cite aural hallucinations as justification for their actions with an entirely straight face, and then shift track not five minutes later. And that's just within a particular congregation! What gets said about other congregations is better left unsaid :P
« Last Edit: November 08, 2015, 07:38:16 pm by Frumple »
Logged
Ask not!
What your country can hump for you.
Ask!
What you can hump for your country.

Fenrir

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Monstrous Wolf
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3296 on: November 08, 2015, 06:12:29 pm »

It probably does sound boring right now, but we were created to worship God. I imagine that worshiping him will be the most fulfilling and wonderful thing ever.
Even here on earth, worshiping God is satisfying. Why do you think people want to go to church in the first place? It becomes a lot easier once you realize how much God loves you. He deserves all we can give him.

Wow. That is creepy.
Logged

Orange Wizard

  • Bay Watcher
  • mou ii yo
    • View Profile
    • S M U G
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3297 on: November 08, 2015, 06:16:00 pm »

IMO the most Biblical interpretation of Heaven (although there's very little said to describe it) is that it'll be exactly like Earth, but everyone will be nice and get along and go to church on Sundays. We'll have work to do, but it will be enjoyable and satisfying. We'll have friends, and holidays, and all the other nice stuff that happens on Earth.
Basically, like Eden before the fall. Adam had a job - looking after the garden - and although he spoke with God, he didn't spend all his time in perpetual prayer. Because that would be boring. We're still human, and humans like to have variation in their lives.
Logged
Please don't shitpost, it lowers the quality of discourse
Hard science is like a sword, and soft science is like fear. You can use both to equally powerful results, but even if your opponent disbelieve your stabs, they will still die.

Bohandas

  • Bay Watcher
  • Discordia Vobis Com Et Cum Spiritum
    • View Profile
Logged
NEW Petition to stop the anti-consumer, anti-worker, Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement
What is TPP
----------------------
Remember, no one can tell you who you are except an emotionally unattached outside observer making quantifiable measurements.
----------------------
Έπαινος Ερις

Frumple

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Prettiest Kyuuki
    • View Profile
Re: Religion and Spirituality Discussion: God-Proof Chariots Edition
« Reply #3299 on: November 08, 2015, 07:38:47 pm »

... so it doesn't. Fixed.
Logged
Ask not!
What your country can hump for you.
Ask!
What you can hump for your country.
Pages: 1 ... 218 219 [220] 221 222 ... 525