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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

The crowns are symbols of achievement towards the glory of god IIRC. It's not so much social stratification but more god showing his great fullness for what you did in his name, not that they matter since they are given back right after

[Frumple]

It's mostly speculative.

By which I mean almost entirely speculative.

Ah, one of those bits. Fair enough.

[origamiscienceguy]

Ah! It's called the Bema judgment. I found a nice web article that describes it well. here

It seems that there are the crowns of: righteousness (2 Timothy 4:, life (James 1:12 and Revelation 2:10), and glory (1 Peter 5:4)

[Descan]

The crowns are symbols of achievement towards the glory of god IIRC. It's not so much social stratification but more god showing his great fullness for what you did in his name, not that they matter since they are given back right after

Humans would not be humans if we didn't manage to stratify and ostracize based on things that don't matter Even in the here-after.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[TD1]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=IZeWPScnolo

Sorry in advance.

[scrdest]

That's what heaven is all about. If stratification wasn't important, people in heaven wouldn't behold people being tortured in Hell to remind themselves how much better they have it than other people.

Maybe that's a clever secret sorting thing. Upon entry, you get told that the Hell-Window's over there. Whoever actually goes to take a gander at tortured humans gets a divine trapdoor straight to Purgatory or whatevs.

[Helgoland]

-snüp-

IIRC the point is that a denarius was about the amount of money a man needed to feed his family for a day. Giving the later workers less would've meant letting their families go hungry.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Helgoland]

The sermon I heard relayed its message as being similar 'to each according to their need', meaning that you don't get into heaven because you were especially pious or donated much or were well-versed in bible matters.

[TempAcc]

IRCC, the idea behind that bit of the bible is what Helgoland mentioned. I always understood that it means that everyone (as long as they keep their faith and etcactualy I may be wrong about that) gets what they need from God, regardless of how pious or hard working one may be. It comes from the idea that God gives you what you need, and not what you think you deserve, and so "the last will be the first, and  the first will be the last", meaning the ones that need God the most will be the first to receive blessings, while the ones that are already pious and good will be the last, since they dont need it as much.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

So remember way back when we had the discussion about how the dragon the serpent the devil and satan are never mentioned as the same being in the bible?

Here ya go: Revelation 20:2
"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."

Doesn't connect satan as being the enemy though I might be able to find a verse for that, this does connect all those thee ones as the same being since it mentions them all as being one thing.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[Arcvasti]

Here ya go: Revelation 20:2
"He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years."

Revelation is... sketchy. Compared to other parts of the Bible[Which is sort of saying something], its dubiously canon. It focuses on this one guy who said that they had visions of the future and past that were sent by God/Jesus/HolySpirit/Alloftheabove. Whether or not they were right or not is debatable. I'm not ruling out the possibility Revelation is a genuine... well, revelation, but there is also a possibility that it is not.

[Rolan7]

I don't really know about Satan's devil-status...  When I think of biblical devils I mainly remember the evil spirits who possessed the men and pigs, and Jesus was able to drive them out.  (Also from a *very* cursory reading, it looks like the terms "devils" and "demons" are both used to describe malevolent possessing spirits.)  It's possible that some or all of those are fallen angels like Satan, and he could be "The" devil as in the most powerful or primary devil.  I really don't know much about it.

What I am sure about is that *Lucifer* is depicted as a human man, and can't be Satan.  See Isaiah 14 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/is/14.html for convenience sake, starting about line 12)
Just line 14:20, for example, doesn't make any sense if Lucifer's an immortal.  The section reads as a condemnation of a mortal king, who won't get a proper burial.

I also chimed in on whether Satan is supposed to be a cherubim or a seraphim, but I don't have anything to add about that...  I don't know enough, honestly.  Interested, though.