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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[Bohandas]

I knew it! Jesus was a bank robber. You cab see it in his eyes, the eyes of a man whos done things, things to get by. Its what you have to do to survive!

Maybe not a bank robber, but he did smash up a currency exchange.

[Orange Wizard]

I knew it! Jesus was a bank robber. You cab see it in his eyes, the eyes of a man whos done things, things to get by. Its what you have to do to survive!

Maybe not a bank robber, but he did smash up a currency exchange.

That happened to be in the temple.

[TD1]

Love and charity to all. Except those dirty temple-profaners! *Grabs whip*

Serious question, though. My sister works in a cafe which is in a still-operating church. Given the whole Jesus-going-mental thing, is she likely to be punished in the afterlife over it? Is it a morally unjust thing to do?

[wobbly]

Kinda different. Usury is a sin. Though depending on interpretation it's either charging interest on loans or charging too much interest on loans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

[Arx]

Unless the church requires that members attend all services with an item from the café, and the café is one of the only places in the city where those items can be found, and they charge extortionist prices, and the church is the only one in the city, your sister's soul is probably safe.

[ggamer]

since the last three pages are pretty much three pages of theological diarrhea, I guess i'll just respond to FFS from way back two days ago and then go back to lurking

@FFS
That's interesting, definitely. I never knew that Catholicism accepted apocryphal texts or (god I forget how to spell it) Dueterocanonical texts? That's a good SAT word, but anyway, I'll cede that one to you. I really need to read up on my church history, anyway.

So before I go, any of you interested in Scholastic Theology (whether you're christian or not) should check out the White Horse Inn podcast. They take a topic-by-topic view of a lot of different things (the example that comes to mind is an episode where they talked about the various differences between Christianity in different areas of the world, with Indian and Iranian community leaders as guests). It's guaranteed to be interesting, even if you don't agree with what they're saying.

[TD1]

Unless the church requires that members attend all services with an item from the café, and the café is one of the only places in the city where those items can be found, and they charge extortionist prices, and the church is the only one in the city, your sister's soul is probably safe.

Oh, good. It seems to be important for her.

Which made me think of something else- do most Christians have a dualist of monist view of the soul? My R.E. class teaches of Resurrection and Immortality of the Soul, one being monist and the other dualist, and both Christian.

For example, Vardy says "How can my soul be me?" and he's a monist.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

So how do other Christians view a family that has a Christian mom, and children but an undecided or atheistic father?

[lemon10]

There are quite a few more of those here by the way if you are interested.

There's a significantly more thorough list here. Fire is indeed common, but it's not alone -- you've also got darkness, separation, silence, and just plain destruction. Many of the references to fire (that aren't just repeating themselves or someone else, anyway) definitely imply that it's not the only punishment, actually, if the translation preserved the meaning adequately. And, as always, description beyond "fiery" is generally decidedly lacking...

Yeah. I have no problem at all with hell being expanded beyond "fiery", or even the fire being taken out, as long as it is acknowledged that hell is a place of eternal torment for those that god feels sinned.

[Orange Wizard]

So how do other Christians view a family that has a Christian mom, and children but an undecided or atheistic father?

Sounds pretty much like my family.

Except the father claims to believe in God and says it's important to go to church but does not do so himself and has incredibly wonky views that don't really fall into any know category.

[Frumple]

Looking at it from the outside, it seems to be the obvious answer of "It depends", with a subtext of _{(especially on where you are)}. Some places you just have a majority of christians think that atheists or non-christians are basically the devil, so the view on that is going to be something along the lines of said parent (regardless of gender _{and actual moral characterwe're talking people to whom the thought of a moral atheist is an Outside Context Problem because it's literally impossible, to them, to be moral without belief in the divine}) being an immoral monster. Other places have a culture that is less bugfuck insane (I think this is particularly true in, say, Europe, where christians in general trend towards being more chill), so it wouldn't even register as an issue. And then there's everything in between. Not really a single answer to the question, or particular generalities -- the outlook is dependent on culture, both local and more general.

Mind you, you'd have the same sort of situation if they were just of a different religion. Depending on how crab-humpingly nuts the area is, sometimes if they're just of a different denomination (See some of the earlier responses to mormonism, or how protestant and catholics have _{and still do, in places} considered each other). It really just depends on the viewer's particular brand of insanity.

[Orange Wizard]

What Frumple said.

I could also mention that the situation is not uncommon in NZ insofar as I'm aware, especially considering the low number of Christians (<40% IIRC) and even lower church attendance (more like 15%) and the fact that we're all pretty chill about it. Unless you're in the Destiny church, but they're

crab-humpingly nuts

anyway.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Ok
Let me clearify
I meant toward Christians and more on the, the father is the head of the houshold and supposed to lead the family especialy religiously.
So what of a father that is a non believer in an entirly Christian family (that being kids and spouse)?

[Frumple]

... then that bit is simply not applicable? Even with a religious parent there's going to be times one or the other just isn't there. From the religious perspective, it'd likely be about the same as a (shit, is there any way to better frame it than "un-owned"? Much of the marriage cruft in the bible arose from a culture that had women as basically property, so the original context is kinda' toxic.) widow or single parent or somethin', at least insofar as religious leadership goes.

Just, uh. Without the brother in law knocking the mother up or something. Hopefully. Unless they're okay with that, I'unno how it'd work exactly.

Honestly, that bit is rapidly becoming kinda' useless nowadays. Lot of single parent families, yeah.

[Bohandas]

... then that bit is simply not applicable? Even with a religious parent there's going to be times one or the other just isn't there. From the religious perspective, it'd likely be about the same as a (shit, is there any way to better frame it than "un-owned"? Much of the marriage cruft in the bible arose from a culture that had women as basically property, so the original context is kinda' toxic.) widow or single parent or somethin', at least insofar as religious leadership goes.

Correction, it came from TWO stupidly misogynistic cultures. The ancient Romans and the ancient Hebrews.