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[Persus13]

Has Shakerag even posted in D2 yet? The fact that he hasn't really done much this game, and what little he has done was grill pisskop over pisskop mentioning lynching him as one of the options to proceed from here is concerning. NQT's points about Shakerag retaliating against Flabort's vig choice make sense to me, and that combined with general suspicion that Shakerag's play was off means we should probably kill your own Shakerag now. I'm slightly worried that part of this is in light of the fact that flabort flipped town, but I'd rather a Shakerag lynch to a pisskop lynch that's being presented at this point.

Scripten:

I'm not so sure it aligns very well with town!Shakerag, though apathy at the prospect of being killed is not necessarily a scumtell. (Though it should be! Town should always play to their best, even (especially) if they are about to die.)

Thanks for clarifying why you think Shakerag's defeatist attitude is scummy. I perceived your attitude towards Shakerag as "Apathy towards death=scum," and I'm glad you clarified this

pisskop:

-Nobody is doubting she had irl things happening.  Do you think it is the result of her scumbuddy getting lynched there is also an ingame reason for it?

No one knows Tiruin's reasons for posting more but her. Considering the fact that I've seen her lurk far wore in games where she was mafia recently, I'm inclined to believe that her amount of posts isn't tied to alignment or the fact that she lost a scumbuddy.

-The purpose of her questions today lend themselves to either postulating about my role/night action, questioning my credibility, or gathering information related to my role.

This is true. How tis this different from any of the other players? You and DA have been the focus of conversation all day.

  -Is this normal Tiruin play?

I don't know. This is the first game Tiruin has shown any amount of activity in in a while because of her bad net.
 

WRT Zombie Urist
-ZU has played this day horribly.  Between dodging questions, demanding people claim town roles, and refusing to offer content.

Guardian doesn't have to be a town role. Otherwise, agreed.

Persus is my top choice, atm.

When you voted me at the beginning of the day, you gave no reasons why I was scum besides just listing a bunch of my posts. I asked you for the reasons. I'm still waiting.

NQT:

Tiruin/Persus, if you had have been around at the end of the day, who would you have voted for when the vote was tied between Pisskop and Flabort? How about when the vote was tied between Flabort & TDS?

I'd rather not have seen either flabort or pisskop lynched, although if I had to choose one of them, it would have probably been Flabort because of the whole outing 4maskwolf's role thing. It's moot now, especially since scum knew 4maskwolf as soon as MC checked his PMs. Otherwise I felt that pisskop was a flailing new player and that Flabort was getting too much flack over the PM comment at the beginning of the game, especially considering how much PM shenanigans happened at the end of Day 1. It's kindof ridiculous.
I definitely would have gone with TDS over Flabort. Hindsight may be clouding my judgement, but I would have gone with TDS over Flabort.

[Cheeetar]

Cheetar, do you think Pisskop's flavour reporting being inconsistent with your sources implies anything about his actual alignment rather than just inconsistent description writing?

No, I can see that as being an entirely legitimate error given Pisskop's more than occasional trouble with accurately conveying things. What I think is far more telling is his reaction to my questioning and vote, as well as the reveal of the medium existing- he was incredibly scummy.

A question for you who are hesitant to vote Pisskop in the event that he's just a poorly performing town: Where are all the mafia jumping on him? He's such an easy target, surely, so where are the scum pushing his lynch? Why isn't somebody apart from me seeing how suspicious his actions are?

[Scripten]

Deus Asmoth:

Scripten, have you decided why that post made you uncomfortable yet?

Ah, right. Yeah, I went back and checked out the quotes in ZU's post. I didn't like how he put UXLZ at the third tier of scumminess, but voted him before his two stronger scumreads. Not to insinuate that it was just him ordering people and changing his mind that alerted me. (Non-ordered scumlists are not a town tell, nor are ordered scumlists a scum tell inherently.) It felt calculated, like he could push a lynch on UXLZ where his other pushes wouldn't be as acceptable or easy. Particularly bothersome was that he was scumreading Tiruin, but wouldn't vote her. I've been noticing that Tiruin's wagon has been super hard to push, even with NQT on it and pushing hard. The bit with forcing a guardian claim rubbed me wrong, too, though that was earlier and IIRC, ZU is a pretty experienced player, so he should really have a good idea of the way the game works.

The game erupted since I've last had time to be active. (Hell, I should be doing homework right now instead, really.) So, if my analysis has already been covered by other players, I apologize.

Persus13:

Scripten:

I'm not so sure it aligns very well with town!Shakerag, though apathy at the prospect of being killed is not necessarily a scumtell. (Though it should be! Town should always play to their best, even (especially) if they are about to die.)

Thanks for clarifying why you think Shakerag's defeatist attitude is scummy. I perceived your attitude towards Shakerag as "Apathy towards death=scum," and I'm glad you clarified this

You know, it's kind of funny how hard the culture shock hit me (hard enough to kill, apparently ) when I discovered the meta here was that defeatist players were read as town. In Operation Overlord, my fake dayvig on Caz read so hard as scum that, even after my lynch, I thought she was scum until she flipped. (There was also a weird roleclaiming practice from her which felt wrong, but that was after I was dead.) I've been in a situation where I knew I was going to die, and that was when I played my hardest, because if I didn't play hard, I was letting the scum use me. Totes unrelated to this game, though it's a funny story.

[pisskop]

I looked over the game.
  I've had it in my head that Persus13/Cheeetar were dichotomous, when its only a matter of two possibilities from a list.

I can't pin down anything specific from you I'm not a fan of, other than your voting pattern.
  That's more a statement on what you haven't said rather than what you have - You don't post much.

Why isn't somebody apart from me seeing how suspicious his actions are?

  I can think of a few reasons . . .
And its not like I couldn't deduce who the medium is given all you have said about them.  Its another matter of statistics.


That leaves Tiruin and Shaker.
  I've had a bad vibe about Tiruin all game; in part because of her posting style, which I am naturally skeptical of.  When she started posting I could see her logic, which was nice, but its still devoid of answers and real meaty content.  She didn't discuss her reads, but I will point out her earmarking Toaster by removing him from her Read list.
I don't think that makes him her buddy, but rather that he is likely town if she is scum.  Not that I have much to suspect him of to begin with.


  I will vote

Shaker


Shaker, wake up and play.

[Jim Groovester]

Tiruin, why did a Telepath PM you and confide their night action results with you? What was their reasoning for contacting you?

Flailing?  I used my vote to elicit a reaction.

I don't even remotely believe you.

What reaction were you hoping to get out of Cheeetar by voting him? Was the reaction you got the one you were expecting?

Or you could skip the formalities and just say your vote on Cheeetar didn't get the traction you expected so you came up with a convenient story to play it off.

Jim, can you rank the players in a rough-and-ready list of scummiest-to-least-scummiest?

Let's see:

pisskop - Everything pisskop does makes me want to vote him, but by virtue of night actions he maybe isn't scum, maybe? I'm starting to feel like lynching him for being distracting would be a legitimately good idea, and this may be the first time I've actually thought that way.
zombie urist - zombie urist is just kind of there. You make some good points about his voting at the end of Day 1.
Tiruin - I don't have any strong opinion of my own about Tiruin, but I agree with your points that she's been entirely contentless all game long.
Shakerag - Lurking.
Toaster - Also lurking.
UXLZ - Eh
Scripten - Meh
Deus Asmoth - Bleh
Persus13 - Doesn't post frequently but does have good content when he does post.
notquitethere - I'm inclined to think you're town, based on how you were willing to urge people against a flabort lynch on Day 1.
Cheeetar - Cheeetar has been aggressive. He's kind of a hardass sometimes.
Jim Groovester - Of course I'm town.

The jump from pisskop to zombie urist in terms of my scum read is rather large. zombie urist is more of a slight scum lean, whereas pisskop is at 'i want to vote him so fucking bad' level of scumread. So before you ask why I'm not voting pisskop, it's because night actions (probably) make him unlikely scum, and before you ask why I'm then not voting zombie urist, it's because my read isn't that strong.

[Cheeetar]

Why isn't somebody apart from me seeing how suspicious his actions are?

  I can think of a few reasons . . .
And its not like I couldn't deduce who the medium is given all you have said about them.  Its another matter of statistics.

Why do you, the innocent townie, even actually care who the medium is?

[pisskop]

I don't.  If you were going to persist in trying to push my lynch based on the information provided by an anonymous medium I was going to demand you tell us who it was.  Otherwise its as good as making up the medium role/claim.

Oh, here are some reasons: 

-Literally everything pisskop ever posts comes across as scum to me. ~bjc
-Everyone was like pisskop is scum and now I see so many people saying koppie is town. I'm not sure who actually changed. ~Tiershift
-Pisskop is painting everyone black and is flipflopping like crazy. I find it hard to believe that he's actually feeling what he says he's feeling. ~Tiershift
-You don't know how close I was to voting pisskop. ~imkingdavid
-Pisskop, every post you make causes me to want to vote you. ~Scripten

[pisskop]

-Pisskop is unlynchable because he's town, if he's scum then maybe he'll be lynchable because he probably won't be as obviously town ~Rayfrost
-and no, i don't see pisskop town anywhere and continue to be amazed others find towniness in the things he posts ~Nachmamma8
-I should have hammered you when I had the chance, but I felt accomplished enough by fooling everyone else up to them defending me this game that I felt I was done.
  ^ the you refers to kop

[Cheeetar]

I literally don't know what you're saying or why, but whatever it is it doesn't change my conviction that you're scum for your reaction to my vote and ghost tip.

[Jim Groovester]

Could you answer my fucking question instead of posting player testimonials about how 'great' you are?

[pisskop]

What question?

[Jim Groovester]

Do you even read the thread?

At all?

[pisskop]

Tiruin, why did a Telepath PM you and confide their night action results with you? What was their reasoning for contacting you?

Flailing?  I used my vote to elicit a reaction.

I don't even remotely believe you.

What reaction were you hoping to get out of Cheeetar by voting him? Was the reaction you got the one you were expecting?

Or you could skip the formalities and just say your vote on Cheeetar didn't get the traction you expected so you came up with a convenient story to play it off.

This?  You insult me and then ask for a serious answer to this?
  If it wasn't obvious [maybe it wasn't to you], I wanted to see how he would react to my own sudden push.  I'm was fairly certain he wasn't going to tell me who the medium was, even if it wasn't faked.  And we were unlikely to get anything other than another waste of the town's time out the deal.

  I had niggling doubts about Cheeetar all game, evidenced by:

Your response is one that suggests one of two things.  I choose to believe you reacted in a relatively town way.  As explained above, I sent out two waves of PMs, to people with which I enjoyed differing levels of communication.

And I got my own answer here in this post:

Yep. A mistake is getting it wrong. The flavour is a non-issue, anyway. The primary thing making you scum right now is your massive overreaction and desperate attempts to pressure me into revealing who the medium is.

(Thanks for the tip, Flabort & helper. It's what I needed to crack this case wide open!)

That kind of thing isn't likely to be faked by a scum, imo.

- - - - -

But lol that you accuse me of not reading text that's right in front of me.  I may have my moments, but this thread has shown me you and your's as well.

[pisskop]

If you need further evidence, consider why it was a 'failed push' in a forum game on a Saturday night.
  A push.  In a forum game.  On a Saturday night.  Which lasted for all of what, an hour?

Oh yea, real time for the push to fail.

[Persus13]

A question for you who are hesitant to vote Pisskop in the event that he's just a poorly performing town: Where are all the mafia jumping on him? He's such an easy target, surely, so where are the scum pushing his lynch? Why isn't somebody apart from me seeing how suspicious his actions are?

I see his actions as suspicious, but at the same time so is your trying to lynch an investigative role and you were on same wagon as Mastahcheese for a while D1. Since pisskop is going to have to tell us his night info, and you're one of the more active players and helped lynch TDS, I'd rather go for Shakerag.