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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1571125 times)

nenjin

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19950 on: June 21, 2016, 06:51:54 pm »

I expect his finances are going to be a primary concern for this new, more mainstream campaign staff. Riding the populist wave seemed to be his last campaign manager's only real plan, and it got the campaign to the nomination stage and surprised everyone. But it's still a long way to November, and that time has to be filled with ads, campaign stops alone won't do it. And ads take serious cash. My guess is Trump is either unable or unwilling to personally invest in his own campaign. Both are a bad sign for Trump. I can't blame him. From a business perspective he's looking at maybe a total loss of $100 million worth of advertising if personally contributes his money and doesn't win. In politics it's always better to use someone else's money, and so he's going to try to fund raise. The problem is, his behavior during the nomination has closed him off from a lot of donors. So he may be forced to choose between risking his own capital to make up the deficit, bowing to the wishes of Republican moderates so he can get put back on the money life line, or just seeing if he can make it on the absolute bare minimum, which his new advisors will tell him is not feasible when you're going up against HDawg and a motivated democratic base who may hate you worse than they hated Bush.

That's actually kind of a dream of mine, to see a candidate go through the general election without having to play the multi-million dollar advertising game. A campaign that could be run just through social media. Of course that all still costs money and you're just shifting your platform to a new medium who also has expectations of getting paid. But I feel like television advertising and its relationship to politics has always been a dirty one, driving the $ of running a campaign through the roof. I'd be nice to see a lean, grass roots campaign utilizing the internet as its primary platform for reaching people succeed in American politics. I think it'd inject another dose of uncertainty into the bloated, money-rich system we've been operating under for decades, and maybe force a little more honesty out of people. Like, internet debates using Face Time where there's not a moderator constantly getting into the dialog and a crowd reaction to play to. (Can't imagine a Twitch-style text section would even be feasible.)

If nothing else it'd make for some golden memes.

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I'm... I'm pretty convinced at this point that Trump doesn't really want to be president, folks. At least not enough to put any actual effort in.

I think it's evidence that Trump is a shitload less dynamic and smart and hands on than he'd have you believe. This paints him as someone that is essentially being steered by others rather than steering themselves.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2016, 06:57:49 pm by nenjin »
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mainiac

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19951 on: June 21, 2016, 06:53:40 pm »

I would like to see a campaign that actually used the power of the internet to spread information instead of beg for cash.
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nenjin

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19952 on: June 21, 2016, 06:59:25 pm »

I would like to see a campaign that actually used the power of the internet to spread information instead of beg for cash.

How's your horse doing on that front, anyways?
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
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When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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mainiac

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19953 on: June 21, 2016, 07:01:00 pm »

I diligently keep myself off those lists.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19954 on: June 21, 2016, 07:05:18 pm »

That's actually kind of a dream of mine, to see a candidate go through the general election without having to play the multi-million dollar advertising game. 
Agreed. And that'd be a positive way to spin this (Look at how far he's gotten on so little!), but for the fact that it doesn't seem to have been intentional or desired. Bernie was the better example, there.
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mainiac

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19955 on: June 21, 2016, 07:09:48 pm »

Bernie Sanders spent 202 million.  Hillary Clinton has spent 225 but Bernie stopped spending like a month ago while she hasn't.  IIRC, Sanders was outspending Clinton for most of the race.

https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate.php?id=N00000019
https://www.opensecrets.org/pres16/candidate.php?id=N00000528
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19956 on: June 21, 2016, 07:16:26 pm »

Yup. He also made a big deal out of only taking individual donations and decrying superPACs, which is what I was thinking of. But that's still mostly wishful thinking in the face of actual spending levels. Small steps, I guess?
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mainiac

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19957 on: June 21, 2016, 07:24:23 pm »

A two billion dollar presidential campaign is still only like a quarter of one percent of the TV advertising in the US over a four year presidential term.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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nenjin

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19958 on: June 21, 2016, 07:26:40 pm »

A two billion dollar presidential campaign is still only like a quarter of one percent of the TV advertising in the US over a four year presidential term.

Over 4 years? Is that like, paying to have "get the message out" presidential commercials or...? I was mainly thinking of just what it takes to get elected. What does all the other money go to?
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When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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How will I cheese now assholes?
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mainiac

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19959 on: June 21, 2016, 07:27:21 pm »

A two billion dollar presidential campaign is still only like a quarter of one percent of the TV advertising in the US over a four year presidential term.

Over 4 years? Is that like, paying to have "get the message out" presidential commercials or...? I was mainly thinking of just what it takes to get elected. What does all the other money go to?

No I mean all ads, for like cars and gum and viagra.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Rolan7

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19960 on: June 21, 2016, 07:48:25 pm »

And yet it's absurdly (infinitely?) more than what British politicians pay for TV ads though, since they basically don't get ads.  Just those brief bits of airtime which I'm not sure they even pay for.

They campaign in other ways obviously, but their budgets are much smaller.  I wish we could do it like that.  But nooo, even paying lobbyists to change laws is "first amendment expression".  So not surprising that TV ads are considered such as well.
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19961 on: June 21, 2016, 07:54:56 pm »

Well, y'know. All things being equal. The UK is not exactly a lot of land to cover. It's also, like. Around the population cali+texas. Which. They're about the most populous states, sure? But there's still 48 other ones.

Maybe similar per capita expenditures as a goal? And/or per mi2 or somethin'. What would that put US spending at anyway?
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19962 on: June 21, 2016, 07:55:50 pm »

It would be something to see a presidential candidate win without bribesdonations.
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Rolan7

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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19963 on: June 21, 2016, 07:58:59 pm »

Well, y'know. All things being equal. The UK is not exactly a lot of land to cover. It's also, like. Around the population cali+texas. Which. They're about the most populous states, sure? But there's still 48 other ones.

Maybe similar per capita expenditures as a goal? And/or per mi2 or somethin'. What would that put US spending at anyway?
Oh no, I didn't mean any sort of absolute cost thing.  If you took it that way.  They have a bunch of cool rules that basically forbid paying for TV ads.  And have tiny, absolute limits on total spending:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egeMAIXYIvI
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Re: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée
« Reply #19964 on: June 21, 2016, 08:08:11 pm »

And yet it's absurdly (infinitely?) more than what British politicians pay for TV ads though, since they basically don't get ads.  Just those brief bits of airtime which I'm not sure they even pay for.
TV licensing cuts out a lot of ads, but Americans laugh at us for having TV licenses ;-;

They campaign in other ways obviously, but their budgets are much smaller.  I wish we could do it like that.  But nooo, even paying lobbyists to change laws is "first amendment expression".  So not surprising that TV ads are considered such as well.
Frumple has a point, it's possible to run political campaigns in Britain on foot, before you factor in stuff like the internet
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