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[Neonivek]

Okay but the examples here are politicians doing what they campaigned to do and were elected to do.  It feels like people are refusing to consider any evidence to the contrary.  Sure sometimes politicians do sell out.  But if you say that they always sell out AFTER being presented with evidence that is not true you are simply ignoring the facts.  I presented a source that backed up my assertion.  You have presented jack shit and yet you continue to insist that my assertion is completely wrong.

No it sounds MORE like your definition of "Selling out" means complete and utter surrender to a corporate power.

[nenjin]

To add to maniac's point, the extreme viewpoint of "everything is bullshit" is exactly why Trump is even on our radars. Because it's a low value intellectual opinion that is essentially held by a significant portion of this country. That's exactly the sentiment he's channeling. "Everything is bullshit" also takes zero responsibility for the future by declaring the present isn't worth even thinking critically about. I was going to counter some of maniac's points about campaign promises by saying "Well Obama still hasn't closed Guantanamo" before I actually read up on it and saw he's been trying his entire presidency to get it closed and has routinely been blocked by Congress and the military from doing so. From the ground level everything does look like bullshit because you can't see past the tallest poop mound in the distance. You gotta elevate your perspective to see past the turds.

[Rolan7]

Yeah.  It's so easy to throw up ones arms at "the establishment" and demand unspecific change.
Easy and pitiful, as someone who did so in the streets in high school (Bush Jr presidency).  I was stroking my ego and gaining cred, not thinking critically about what might actually help.

Course, Bush Jr was an easy target for hate.  A detestable distraction.

I was going to counter some of maniac's points about campaign promises by saying "Well Obama still hasn't closed Guantanamo" before I actually read up on it and saw he's been trying his entire presidency to get it closed and has routinely been blocked by Congress and the military from doing so. From the ground level everything does look like bullshit because you can't see past the tallest poop mound in the distance. You gotta elevate your perspective to see past the turds.

That's encouraging.  Could you maybe share some info on that?  I'd love to hear that my faith in Obama was well-placed.

Not that Romney was ever a fucking option.  Godsdamn 2-party system.  McCain...  Right-wing but I seriously considered him.

[nenjin]

Just go read the section of the wikipedia article about "Obama's attempts to close Guantanamo." You'll be happy to know that, this year, after years of telling Obama no, Congress finally decided that, yes, we should close it. There's no stated timeframe for doing so though.

Change we can believe in, I guess? Or just an official ass-covering statement by Congress now that Obama can no longer claim it as a 'victory', perhaps.

[Strife26]

One of the greater disadvantages of the American government system is the diffusion of responsibility. Who exactly should the country blame for the President's failure? Points for touching on Legislative vs Executive, congressional deadlock, continued expansion of executive orders and power, the fun of holding people without trial, and the ridiculously strange situation that is our leasing of gitmo.

Digressions related to American assassinations, A Few Good Men, and the greater scope of the War on Terror will be deductions (and double deductions if you wander into the weeds of the President bumping off American citizens without trial).

[BorkBorkGoesTheCode]

The legal power of the president of the United States is intentionally limited by the constitution. Most of the complaints people have about Barack Obama should be directed at the legislative branch instead.

[Neonivek]

The legal power of the president of the United States is intentionally limited by the constitution. Most of the complaints people have about Barack Obama should be directed at the legislative branch instead.

Or the fact that the USA was in a recession at the time.

There have been USA presidents who became popular for the sole reason of becoming president when they were exiting a recession/depression and basically got credit for it. (it is quite common in fact... In fact, though not American, there was a president popular for a golden age even though he single handedly caused the crippling depression that occurred after he left office)

Obama was DOOMED to be unpopular from the start just from becoming president during one no matter what he did.

[Strife26]

The legal power of the president of the United States is intentionally limited by the constitution. Most of the complaints people have about Barack Obama should be directed at the legislative branch instead.

It's limited but definitely on the upswing. Thanks to Congress being useless, President Obama has become our most powerful executive all the way back to FDR, probably. With all the executive orders he's been using, you don't think that it's possible he could've killed gitmo with one? Or held the budget veto-hostage?

I mean, I'm from a particular culture and all, but blaming those bastards in another department for the failure of one's promises is poor practice in my book.

[RedKing]

President Obama has become our most powerful executive all the way back to FDR, probably. With all the executive orders he's been using, you don't think that it's possible he could've killed gitmo with one? Or held the budget veto-hostage?

I mean, I'm from a particular culture and all, but blaming those bastards in another department for the failure of one's promises is poor practice in my book.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

By powerful, I'm guessing you mean how he's used the fewest executive orders of any two-term President since...shit, McKinley? And that's a bit unfair since McKinley ate lead six months into the second term.

[Neonivek]

President Obama has become our most powerful executive all the way back to FDR, probably. With all the executive orders he's been using, you don't think that it's possible he could've killed gitmo with one? Or held the budget veto-hostage?

I mean, I'm from a particular culture and all, but blaming those bastards in another department for the failure of one's promises is poor practice in my book.

http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/data/orders.php

By powerful, I'm guessing you mean how he's used the fewest executive orders of any two-term President since...shit, McKinley? And that's a bit unfair since McKinley ate lead six months into the second term.

Didn't stop Reagan.

[Baffler]

The number of orders issued isn't nearly as important as the issues the ones that go out address. I don't know enough about the history of the executive order to make a comparison, but Obama's use of them has been controversial in certain respects.

[Shadowlord]

Come on, the executive orders he issued which dissolved congress, imposed martial law, teleported all terrorists a mile underwater, and freed mars are in no way controversial.

[Orange Wizard]

I think it's less a problem with either branch of government, and more that they're in opposition. Executive wants to do X, legislative wants to do Y, neither side can do anything. Without a clear hierarchy it's a very inefficient system.

Actually, on that note, just how powerful is an executive order? It doesn't seem that they're particularly effective.

[nenjin]

The number of orders issued isn't nearly as important as the issues the ones that go out address. I don't know enough about the history of the executive order to make a comparison, but Obama's use of them has been controversial in certain respects.

Every president's actions are considered controversial by some. If you want a qualitative judgment, you have to specify which ones you mean, and why.

Actually, on that note, just how powerful is an executive order? It doesn't seem that they're particularly effective.

It's the power to interpret how the laws set forth by Congress are executed. Which is pretty powerful depending on how narrowly a law is constructed by Congress.

As a recent example, https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2014/07/21/president-obama-signs-new-executive-order-protect-lgbt-workers.

"Today's Executive Order amends Executive Order 11246, issued by President Lyndon B. Johnson, adding sexual orientation and gender identity to the list of protected categories in the existing Executive Order covering federal contractors." EO 11246, I believe, acts on the intent of Title XII of the Civil Rights Act.

[RedKing]

Well, one source of executive actions is when flags are flown at half-mast after a tragedy. So it's even more impressive that Obama's number is relatively low, considering how many fucking tragedies there have been.