Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[smjjames]

Republican debate in about 12 min or so.

[lemon10]

So...I have a question. Why do we need equal outcomes, if truly equal opportunities are provided? I mean, I think paid maternal and paternal leave should be provided, but I mean...the wage gap is a symptom, it isn't the disease. It feels like you're wanting us to optimize for a variable that isn't actually necessarily bad. We dislike the wage gap when it's based on sexism. Women taking more time off is sorta that, but...it's not something you're gonna change by trying to force men to take more leave, or with economic/tax things. You said yourself it's a cultural thing, but...it doesn't seem like an inherently bad one, if that makes any sense.

Even if there are technically equal outcomes it doesn't mean there are truly equal outcomes. A man choosing to taking time off (that the company is legally required to give him) to care for his baby is going to take a significant hit to his career (as obviously they care far less about the job then someone that doesn't take the time off).
The only way to change that would be to require that men take time off to, so they can actually take the time off without sabotaging themselves and their hope of future advancement at that job.

[smjjames]

Oh, apparently Rience Priebus is going to speak for a bit, then the candidates come onstage and the debate actually starts in a bit under a half hour....

So...I have a question. Why do we need equal outcomes, if truly equal opportunities are provided? I mean, I think paid maternal and paternal leave should be provided, but I mean...the wage gap is a symptom, it isn't the disease. It feels like you're wanting us to optimize for a variable that isn't actually necessarily bad. We dislike the wage gap when it's based on sexism. Women taking more time off is sorta that, but...it's not something you're gonna change by trying to force men to take more leave, or with economic/tax things. You said yourself it's a cultural thing, but...it doesn't seem like an inherently bad one, if that makes any sense.

Even if there are technically equal outcomes it doesn't mean there are truly equal outcomes. A man choosing to taking time off (that the company is legally required to give him) to care for his baby is going to take a significant hit to his career (as obviously they care far less about the job then someone that doesn't take the time off).
The only way to change that would be to require that men take time off to, so they can actually take the time off without sabotaging themselves and their hope of future advancement at that job.

Basically it would be that the employers are required to provide a certain amount of paid vacation, which I believe some countries do, while the US doesn't.

And 538 really needs to deal with the spammers on their comment sidebar of the liveblog.....

[Frumple]

Yeah, it's fairly common in countries that aren't quite so needlessly exploitative of their workforce. Honestly, some sort of federal standard for the subject that's not basically bullshit (current is 2 weeks unpaid, iirc, unless it's changed in the last 2-3 years) might even things up on that front. Be nicer than the current situation, anyway.

[Lord Shonus]

Basically it would be that the employers are required to provide a certain amount of paid vacation, which I believe some countries do, while the US doesn't.

What's needed is a certain amount of mandatory paid vacation. I've worked in more than a few places that had PTO plans, but failure to keep the balance maxed got you on the shortlist for downsizing, because no proper worker would use any of it.

[RedKing]

Rubio with a decent answer on H-1Bs. The way that Disney and some others have used H-1Bs is total bullshit.

Thing is, the GOP pro-business establishment loves being able to get cheap labor, which is why they're not serious about immigration or work visa reform.


LOL...ballsy answer from Trump, "Yeah, the program is total bullshit and terrible for America, and I totally abuse the hell out of it. Someone stop me, please."


EDIT: Cruz is asked about legal immigration, bashes illegal immigration.
EDIT #2: Rubio: I want a merit-based immigration system that would have denied my father a chance to be here.
EDIT #3: Trump asked about Common Core, gives some bullshit Tea Party answer with no specifics. Seems to tout Ben Carson as his Sec. of Education. 
EDIT #4: Kasich is asked about his support for Common Core, gives a wonky answer that really doesn't answer the question.
EDIT #5: Cruz is asked about Common Core, casts it as Obama Imperial Blackmail Indoctrination, touts dissolving the Department of Education and replacing with homeschools.

[Rolan7]

Hm, Trump still being honest about H1B as something he abused as a CEO, and shouldn't have been allowed to abuse.  In essence that we can't expect corporations to be nice, they are profit optimizers that obey the law only to avoid fines.  And public opinion doesn't effectively police them.

He's consistent in that, and I think it makes a lot of sense.  The idea that he's an insider who has, literally, abused the system and thus knows how to fix it.

Of course, I don't trust him to fix it.  But it's a reasonable argument.

[smjjames]

Not really getting the opposition to comon core, besides 'keep your hands off mah kids education Washington DC!'

[RedKing]

Most reasonable opposition has been focused around the way it teaches primary math. Most unreasonable opposition is along the lines of "Liberal indoctrination! Only book my kid needs to be readin' is the Bible!"


Trump: "The Democrats are leaving Social Security as it is, which is just terrible. So I want to make America great again. And leave Social Security as it is." 

Also makes a stupid-ass comparison with Chinese GDP. Yeah 7% GDP is a "slow" Chinese economy, because they have so much room to grow their economy. It's ridiculous to think that the US could EVER have 7% GDP.

[nenjin]

Not really getting the opposition to comon core, besides 'keep your hands off mah kids education Washington DC!'

He's a religious conservative, and is appealing to other religious conservatives who think education standards undermine their ability raise their kids to believe what they believe.

ninja'd

[Rolan7]

Trump: "The Democrats are leaving Social Security as it is, which is just terrible. So I want to make America great again. And leave Social Security as it is." 

Haha I was just wondering about that.
Also the "integrated math" system is horrifying, I think it's tied to Common Core but I'm not sure.

[RedKing]

So it sounded like Trump was saying the US is going to start running a global protection racket.

"Hey Japan, nice country you got got here...sure would be a shame if Kim Jong Unibrow over there was to cause you a little trouble. How bout you have a billion dollars ready fo us this time next year, or maybe the 7th Fleet -- they don't show up so quick next time, capeche?"


These assholes can go fuck themselves. SS benefits barely keep up with inflation now. Granted, I've known for years that I'm probably not getting ANY benefits and probably won't be able to retire. But seriously....FUCK ALL THESE ASSHOLES.

[penguinofhonor]

I just learned that common core is only a set of standards for English and math. I guess science is just too controversial?

[RedKing]

Awww man, I was ready to grab the popcorn for a Cruz-Trump fight, and then Donald had to rain on the shit-flinging.
Very low-energy. Total disappointment.

[Rolan7]

Cruz:  Government is the problem (ANNNNNARCHY!) and only raise the retirement age for the young.  Also we should invent some system where some of our income goes into our future.
(like social security, I guess, but no no it's "like a 401k")