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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1550141 times)

Frumple

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13680 on: March 07, 2016, 01:45:17 pm »

Y'all are hilarious with your double standards.
Not... really? There's not a double standard in "No one is yelling, and then someone is yelling." Which is what people are getting concerned about, toad-wise. Rudeness ain't what people are particularly concerned about, it's responses getting inflamed beyond reason.

... and I wouldn't really call it disingenuous. From what I've seen the sides aren't exactly identical, but largely equivalent in their asshole/tone-deaf/etc. contingent... yeah. There's certainly significantly more similarities than differences (which, hell, isn't really that much of a surprise considering they're both going after fairly similar demographics).
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13681 on: March 07, 2016, 01:45:40 pm »

I have yet to see anyone threaten to invoke moderation, other than you. I DGAF what you call me.

And on that note, everyone enhance your calm. It's too early in the week to summon the Toad.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Uzu Bash

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13682 on: March 07, 2016, 01:47:07 pm »

So is no one going to bring up the fact that Bill Clinton was one of the favorite presidents of black democrats, and Bernie's campaign has not reached out to them enough to overcome the weight of perception that Hillary is going to be as good for them as he was? That the most prolific voters in this category are over the age of 40 and are not at all impressed by the fact that the Bernie revolution is mostly one of the young?

This is why Hillary is polling so well in this demographic, and these answers are straight from them. So perhaps if you want to change their minds, actually reach out to them with your messages?
Bernie has been spouting the socialist democratic gospel for a long time, to any audience he could. He's already tried to get the 40+ voters, but his message is only gaining traction now that he's bringing it to the next generation. He's like Trump in that regard, he can impress people who don't subject him to sufficient analysis.

And he's not going to be able to take the black vote from the Clintons. Bill was once called 'the first back president' because he'd done so much more for civil rights than any single president.
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hector13

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13683 on: March 07, 2016, 01:48:11 pm »

I have yet to see anyone threaten to invoke moderation, other than you. I DGAF what you call me.

And on that note, everyone enhance your calm. It's too early in the week to summon the Toad.

I think that was more of a "calm your shit or we'll get moderated" than "calm your shit or I'll report mainiac/everyone"
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13684 on: March 07, 2016, 01:50:12 pm »

Not... really? There's not a double standard in "No one is yelling, and then someone is yelling." Which is what people are getting concerned about, toad-wise. Rudeness ain't what people are particularly concerned about, it's responses getting inflamed beyond reason.

I have been reported for saying "Wow, how is that not something a horrible person would say?"

And he's not going to be able to take the black vote from the Clintons. Bill was once called 'the first back president' because he'd done so much more for civil rights than any single president.

A quote that is often misunderstood.  It's not saying he resonated with Black voters.  It's saying that he was held up to a double standard and assumed to be guilty.  http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2015/08/toni-morrison-wasnt-giving-bill-clinton-a-compliment/402517/

I have yet to see anyone threaten to invoke moderation, other than you. I DGAF what you call me.

And on that note, everyone enhance your calm. It's too early in the week to summon the Toad.

I think that was more of a "calm your shit or we'll get moderated" than "calm your shit or I'll report mainiac/everyone"

Sure, the thing is nobody thought "wow, people are saying inflammatory stuff, they need to chill out" when people are calling Clinton supporters racists.  It's par for the course to be rude and belittling to Clinton supporters.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 01:51:49 pm by mainiac »
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Cruxador

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13685 on: March 07, 2016, 01:52:25 pm »

Heh. Just noticed Clinton has won 9 States, Sanders 8. Too bad the States she's winning, she's absolutely owning, thanks to #HillarySoBlack.

I don't like how that hashtag makes it look like Hillary winning the black vote is somehow bad.
She has a mediocre record on civil rights, and nothing other than pandering to indicate that she has black interests at heart. If you assume that the primary factor that black people have in common to distinguish them as a voting bloc, her huge lead among black people makes no sense at all, especially compared to Bernie Sanders who has been imprisoned in the name of civil rights. So... I guess it's a good thing that race in America has fallen to a level of importance such that very many black people will happily vote against their racial interest, but it's still an odd statistic and (for those black people who do still place a high importance on race) it shouldn't be hard to see why this is frustrating.

If it's really so baffling why black voters support Clinton, have you tried to see what they're saying about it?
The problem is, black people that are vocal about politics, race, and the intersection thereof tend to also be pro-Bernie.

SJW dont actually exist the way they are talked about.
They exist, though they are quite rare.

Quote
They are being used exactly the same way as fascism got bandied about
Fascism exists too. Hell, it's practically Trump's campaign platform; as much as it's true that the term has been erroneously applied to right-wing leaders since forever, his campaign has a ton of philosophical and methodical overlap with all three of the big-name European fascist leaders.

Not to say that the post you're criticizing really added anything productive to the conversation.

Probably because being a SJW isn't being a leftist, it's being both leftist and an irrational demagogic shithead at the same time.
Here's a nice little dissertation on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZl9tKBARCA

Trump is the irrational demagogic shithead, not Clinton, they're polar opposites there. There is a healthy dose of demagogurey that is always present in election campaigns though.
Trump is a demagogue. Bernie is a demagogue. Clinton mixes demagoguery with traditional politics. You know who's not a demagogue? John Kasich. Take a look at his poll numbers.

Lo and behold the mighty works of mainiac, king of reframing. Know thy words be turned against thy breast, and despair.
Oh shit son
So you feel that your words are being turned against you.
Man you can't even compete. This is playground-tier banter "I know you are but what am I" like this is when you should have either gotten real or just stepped out.

Also that was kinda like that thing where Rubio was repeating his talking point and Cruz was like "look at this robot" and in response Cruz went and did it again. Like, that's exactly what he just called you on.

My question was: How would you feel
It's a dumb question. Who cares?
keeping that in mind, why do you think I'm asking this?
Because you've gotten yourself into an argument that you lack the skill to win, yet you also lack the congeniality to concede and the dignity to simply stop posting. That is, after all, the typical reason that people appeal to the heart when addressing matters of the brain. Of course, that's merely the conclusion I've drawn based on the evidence you've presented. If you want to present some other notion, it might behoove you to ask less questions and proffer more answers.

Not from what I recall, no, socrates wasn't particularly well known for asking people to be polite. Forget exactly which one it was, but at least one of the big three (Aristotle/plato/socrates) was known for being something of a jackass.
Probably thinking od Socrates. He was definitely known for asking stupid questions.
Quote
Fairly sure it was socrates that was the illiterate psuedo-hobo that yelled at people in the marketplaces, though.
The one best known for being homeless was Diogenes.

But as soon as mainiac stops politely asking them questions and calls them out on the shit people threaten to call the toad.
Nobody did any threatening, Nenjin's request that people chill was a non-directional appeal to logic. It's a reasonable suggestion, in my opinion. As for questions, your questions are probably the rudest thing you've been doing. If you would stop that and say whatever you've been actually trying to say, that would move things in the right direction.
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Egan_BW

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13686 on: March 07, 2016, 01:54:15 pm »

is it just me or has maniac been asking a lot of rhetorical questions
ALSO! What is with all the ban/report fearmongering around this board lately? I thought you guys were better than that.
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smjjames

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13687 on: March 07, 2016, 01:56:09 pm »

So is no one going to bring up the fact that Bill Clinton was one of the favorite presidents of black democrats, and Bernie's campaign has not reached out to them enough to overcome the weight of perception that Hillary is going to be as good for them as he was? That the most prolific voters in this category are over the age of 40 and are not at all impressed by the fact that the Bernie revolution is mostly one of the young?

This is why Hillary is polling so well in this demographic, and these answers are straight from them. So perhaps if you want to change their minds, actually reach out to them with your messages?
Bernie has been spouting the socialist democratic gospel for a long time, to any audience he could. He's already tried to get the 40+ voters, but his message is only gaining traction now that he's bringing it to the next generation. He's like Trump in that regard, he can impress people who don't subject him to sufficient analysis.

And he's not going to be able to take the black vote from the Clintons. Bill was once called 'the first back president' because he'd done so much more for civil rights than any single president.

Has anybody looked at whether there was a split between those under 40 and those above 40 for the black vote? I tried to look at 538 and while there are two on SC, theres really nothing about looking at how come Sanders doesn't do well with minorities and Clinton does.

People have also been bringing up things like the mass incarceration and other things, but that doesn't seem to hurt her among African Americans.
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13688 on: March 07, 2016, 01:57:45 pm »

is it just me or has maniac been asking a lot of rhetorical questions

Yes, I've been trying to shake things up.  I'm mostly pleased with the results.  Cruxador seems to think it's sarcastic but overall the conversation seems to be a lot more honest.  Do y'all think it's a good approach?

Has anybody looked at whether there was a split between those under 40 and those above 40 for the black vote? I tried to look at 538 and while there are two on SC, theres really nothing about looking at how come Sanders doesn't do well with minorities and Clinton does.

Most polls dont give enough for the crosstabs but the margins in some congressional districts seems to indicate it's probably not the case.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Egan_BW

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13689 on: March 07, 2016, 02:21:24 pm »


Yes, I've been trying to shake things up.  I'm mostly pleased with the results.  Cruxador seems to think it's sarcastic but overall the conversation seems to be a lot more honest.  Do y'all think it's a good approach?

A bit condescending IMO, but anyone who posts in a polotik thread should probably expect that especially from you.
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13690 on: March 07, 2016, 02:24:35 pm »


A bit condescending IMO, but anyone should expect that from you.

FTFY
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Frumple

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13691 on: March 07, 2016, 02:26:21 pm »

I saw that edit =_=

Also no, not a good approach. Rhetorical questions should be used sparingly, if at all.
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13692 on: March 07, 2016, 02:27:21 pm »

Could you elaborate a little bit on why you feel rhetorical questions should be steered away from?
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

smjjames

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13693 on: March 07, 2016, 02:29:46 pm »

Could you elaborate a little bit on why you feel rhetorical questions should be steered away from?

Might get confusing if you do it too much? Plus it's more in the realm of philosophy, which is what confused me for a bit earlier when it looked like things went philosophical (which is what nenjin meant by socratic).

I'm fine with rhetorical questions, it just should be done in moderation, you know.
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Rolepgeek

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13694 on: March 07, 2016, 02:33:57 pm »

Sure, the thing is nobody thought "wow, people are saying inflammatory stuff, they need to chill out" when people are calling Clinton supporters racists.  It's par for the course to be rude and belittling to Clinton supporters.
They were? I thought they were just, like, calling Clinton and her personal advisory campaign or whatever(don't know if that makes any sense) racist.

Bernie has been spouting the socialist democratic gospel for a long time, to any audience he could. He's already tried to get the 40+ voters, but his message is only gaining traction now that he's bringing it to the next generation. He's like Trump in that regard, he can impress people who don't subject him to sufficient analysis.

And he's not going to be able to take the black vote from the Clintons. Bill was once called 'the first back president' because he'd done so much more for civil rights than any single president.
Wait wot?

Socialist democracy is a thing in Europe. And yeah, they're having issues, but as far as I can tell, UK is mostly alright, and meanwhile there's a distinct possible of Trump being in charge of nuclear weapons.

I want you to think about that for a second. Just put your response on pause, I promise I'll still read it, but just take a second and think about Donald Trump having access and control of our country's nuclear arsenal.

If that doesn't scare you shitless, you are a more optimistic individual than I.

And yeah, I know it seems like a nonsequiter, but my point is that this whole 'American capitalism is best capitalism' hasn't worked out great for us in terms of how it affects our politics. Or wealth differences. GDP's great, but we also happen to be the largest first world country on the planet with a relatively low population density, which has been building on cheap labor for a long, long time, and has plenty of natural resources we haven't tapped yet because we were still spreading while the industrial revolution happened. GDP also isn't the best measure of actual economic health, just like income is not necessarily indicative of intelligence, class, or financial security.
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