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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1569857 times)

SirQuiamus

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13365 on: March 03, 2016, 01:51:16 pm »

But at the end of the day there's actual policy and governing.
"You can have any policy you like, as long as it's neoliberal."
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RedKing

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13366 on: March 03, 2016, 02:08:26 pm »

I think what Covenant is trying to get at is that people don't take the arguments made by Trump's supporters seriously. Sure, Trump goes on about his wall bullshit and other idiocies, but the average voter (going off of exit polls, high-school educated white males in low income jobs) for Trump deals with a few things in their perspective:

  • The erosion of the middle class
  • Increased Hispanic immigration, particularly to areas such as the southern states
  • The slow but steady collapse of industrial jobs in the US due to lower labor costs oversees

Except that's not the arguments his supporters are making. Their arguments are as much smoke and mirrors as Trump's policies.

They typically wind up being one of the following:
1. "He's already rich, so he can't be bought."
2. "He says what he means."
3. "He's made a fortune as a successful businessman, so he'll make America a success too."
4. "He's an outsider, so it won't be politics as usual."
5. "He's gonna purge America of filthy mud people and restore our sacred Anglo heritage."

(Okay, it's only a small minority of people making that last one, but it should be noted that they seem very positive on that one.)

The thing is, absolutely none of these has any basis in reality.

1. I have yet to see anyone so rich as to be beyond corruption. Especially when you have Trump saying, "I'm going to be greedy for America!"

2. "He says what I want to hear"/"he says things that piss off people I don't like" != "he says what he means"

3. Yeah, I remember GWB touting his business experience too, and saying that America should be run more like a business. Remind me again how that worked out?

A country is not a business. You can't offshore your citizenry. You can't downsize to save money (at least not without war crimes). You can't spin off failing ventures (unless he decides to give Puerto Rico independence).

Moreover, the President doesn't run America -- he runs the American government. Which is also not a business, nor should it be run like one.

4. Even if he is an outsider, he has to work with 535 politicians (most of whom hate his guts at this point) and a host of bureaucrats. Unless he's planning to rip up the Constitution, it *will* be politics as usual.

5. Yeah....the fact that Stormfront loves the guy speaks volumes to me. And while I don't think Trump is himself a Aryan supremacist (or else he wouldn't be using Eastern Europe as his dating service), he's canny enough to try and dogwhistle his way past it so he keeps their support.

The fact that the guy is such a blatant panderer who frankly doesn't give a shit about the vast majority of people doesn't bother me. That's to be expected. The fact that so many people buy into it hook, line and sinker does.
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mainiac

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13367 on: March 03, 2016, 02:34:28 pm »

Maybe I was wrong to say a Trump-Clinton ticket was impossible.  These guys make a very compelling argument.

And an excellent example IMHO of why the GOP is failing to stop Trump.  This is the sort of thing that is annoying to watch for a liberal.  It's slandering the foreign policy of liberals.  But what exactly is in there to make this an attack on Trump?  Oh no, he touched the liberals now he has cooties!
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Levi

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13368 on: March 03, 2016, 02:45:23 pm »

Man, can you guys speed up yer election or something.  Every 3rd post on Boing Boing is a photoshopped image of Trump or a post comparing him to Hitler.  Its getting pretty obnoxious.
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RedKing

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13369 on: March 03, 2016, 02:45:27 pm »

Inb4 fusion

Trumpdeau will make Camerida "not too bad, eh" again.

@Levi: there's a reason the Daily Show used the label "The Long, Flat, Seemingly Endless Bataan Death March To The White House" for the 2008 campaign season. And if you think the Trump saturation is bad now, wait till he gets the nomination.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 02:49:23 pm by RedKing »
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Aklyon

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13370 on: March 03, 2016, 02:46:15 pm »

At least Canada elected Trudeau.
Is this good or bad for the cold northerners who also have french people?
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Zangi

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13371 on: March 03, 2016, 02:46:54 pm »

Well, the cyclical gold-plated spectacle that is Murrican politics really made it possible for Trump to get where he is now.
Ain't got noone to blame but itself.

Just saying, if Murrica votes him in, it had it coming.
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smjjames

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13372 on: March 03, 2016, 02:46:59 pm »

That doesn't look like a very good attack on Trump, given that he has been saying the same things the ad is saying. That last clip, which is him mocking Rubio, seems like a random insert.
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Uzu Bash

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13373 on: March 03, 2016, 03:38:56 pm »

I think the republican party would be fine if donald trump makes it. After all, he is at 42% and climbing What would really destroy the republican party is a brokered convention where they chose Rubio.
Do you really believe he can climb to 51%, especially with so much Republican resistance? Because if he can't get 51% of the vote from his own party, how could the GNC be convinced he can get it in a general election? If he's not the GNC's hope of taking the presidency, they wouldn't balk one moment at expressing their rejection of Trump by backing Rubio, win or lose.
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RedKing

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13374 on: March 03, 2016, 03:45:45 pm »

Umm, yeah they might. Because they've made Hillary out to be the Whore of Babylon. (And will continue to do do in the general campaign, no doubt). Running Rubio or *anyone* as an  independent, splitting the vote, and assuring that the Democrats hold onto the White House for the 12th straight year will not go down well with the base *or* the Trumpeters. So of course, I totally hope they're dumb enough to do that. Because the ensuing civil war in the GOP will make the Tea Party shenanigans look tame.
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Cruxador

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13375 on: March 03, 2016, 03:51:54 pm »

If I were a member of the Trump-loving Red Tribe, I would feel 100% comfortable informing my Red-Tribe friends and co-workers about my choice of candidate – after all, they'd be voting for him as well. As for my Trump-hating Blue-Tribe "friends" and co-workers... well, I'd probably tell them who I'm voting for without telling them why, and I'd do it as confrontationally as possible, with accusations of "elitism" thrown in. My Blue-Tribe "friends" and co-workers would undoubtedly respond with accusations of sexism and racism, in a tone that clearly confirms my expectations of Blue-Tribe condescension towards my tribe: "Those out-group bastards refuse to tolerate my in-group – I'll fucking show them! Even if Trump turns out to be a gay Muslim pedo-rapist-murderer, I'm still voting for him just to spite those condescending out-group assholes!"

None of this would mean that the out-group is necessarily wrong about Trump being a terrible candidate, but who cares? Politics is no more about politics, just entertainment and social signalling.
Looks like we need another civil war.

Man, can you guys speed up yer election or something.  Every 3rd post on Boing Boing is a photoshopped image of Trump or a post comparing him to Hitler.  Its getting pretty obnoxious.
You think that'll stop when he wins?

Do you really believe he can climb to 51%, especially with so much Republican resistance? Because if he can't get 51% of the vote from his own party, how could the GNC be convinced he can get it in a general election?
He might well do substantially better than the typical republican candidate with moderates. He's in the republican party now, but is appeal doesn't line up perfectly with the Republican party platform, and there's plenty of folks that aren't hard-line republicans that he can potentially appeal to him. What's more, he's probably going to preach some more lefterly ideals after receiving the nomination.
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Levi

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13376 on: March 03, 2016, 03:57:01 pm »

Man, can you guys speed up yer election or something.  Every 3rd post on Boing Boing is a photoshopped image of Trump or a post comparing him to Hitler.  Its getting pretty obnoxious.
You think that'll stop when he wins?

I refuse to believe that could happen.   :P 
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smjjames

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13377 on: March 03, 2016, 03:57:22 pm »

If I were a member of the Trump-loving Red Tribe, I would feel 100% comfortable informing my Red-Tribe friends and co-workers about my choice of candidate – after all, they'd be voting for him as well. As for my Trump-hating Blue-Tribe "friends" and co-workers... well, I'd probably tell them who I'm voting for without telling them why, and I'd do it as confrontationally as possible, with accusations of "elitism" thrown in. My Blue-Tribe "friends" and co-workers would undoubtedly respond with accusations of sexism and racism, in a tone that clearly confirms my expectations of Blue-Tribe condescension towards my tribe: "Those out-group bastards refuse to tolerate my in-group – I'll fucking show them! Even if Trump turns out to be a gay Muslim pedo-rapist-murderer, I'm still voting for him just to spite those condescending out-group assholes!"

None of this would mean that the out-group is necessarily wrong about Trump being a terrible candidate, but who cares? Politics is no more about politics, just entertainment and social signalling.
Looks like we need another civil war.

Pretty sure you're just being tongue-in-cheek here, but civil war against who? If anything, it's going to be a political 'civil war'.

How would a 'civil war' war (with weapons and shooting, and blood, and death, and blood) solve anything besides making people angrier?
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Shadowlord

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13378 on: March 03, 2016, 04:01:14 pm »

At least Canada elected Trudeau.
Is this good or bad for the cold northerners who also have french people?

That depends on whether President Trump invades for the rich maple syrup and/or oil sands reserves. (I know which one I'd rather have on my food.)

Another explanation for Trump's followers:
Trump is their man not despite his authoritarian streak, but because of it. University of Massachusetts's Matthew MacWilliams has discovered that the biggest predictor of support for Trump isn't income, education, age, religion, or even party identification. It's voter score on the authoritarianism scale.

This one actually makes sense.
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RedKing

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Re: Donald J. Trump's Jet Fuel Can't Melt Steel Beams 2016 Megathread
« Reply #13379 on: March 03, 2016, 04:10:34 pm »

At least Canada elected Trudeau.
Is this good or bad for the cold northerners who also have french people?

That depends on whether President Trump invades for the rich maple syrup and/or oil sands reserves. (I know which one I'd rather have on my food.)
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Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.
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