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[Playergamer]

Last I looked, it wasn't 1967 or 1993.

Because law enforcement is much more racist today than it was in the 60s, yes.

[RedKing]

No, but the fear of triggering a race war is a lot lower than it was in 1967.

Cliven Bundy apparently flew out to be with the holdouts at the refuge...and was promptly arrested by Federal agents when he landed in Portland, on charges stemming from the 2014 incident. One wonders whether that will deep-six the planned surrender, which should be taking place about now.

EDIT: The Anderson's and Jeff Banta have surrendered. David Fry is the last holdout, and based on the live stream, it sounds like he's having second thoughts. Dude is wrapped a little too tight, and Fiorie and Seim are frantically trying to talk him down.

EDIT #2: I think Fry is planning to go out shooting. I just hope he doesn't take anybody else with him. Dude is unhinged and panicked at this point. Even Fiore and Seim seem to be getting pissed at him.

[RedKing]

It's going down. Fry is screaming and cursing incoherently at the FBI and refusing to talk with the people that were trying to talk him down.

Livestream is here.

There's some other female yelling in the background....Sandy Anderson, maybe? Or Michele Fiore?

Scratch that, the previous stream was yesterday. Here's the current feed.


EDIT: So apparently the woman on the livestream is KrisAnne Hall, a right-wing podcaster and "Constitutional scholar". She's remarkably less good at amplifying their relaxed states than Fiore was last night. Fiore is at the refuge but is with the FBI. Franklin Graham is on a seperate phone with Fry.

EDIT #2: And Fry just undermined his credibility further by claiming that all this could have been avoided if he could have just had marijuana back in Ohio.

EDIT #3: Fry is desperately looking for rationalizations for the suicide he wants at this point.

EDIT #4: Fry seems to be suddenly calm, states he's laying in bed "enjoying his blanket" and is really sleepy. Wondering if it's sleep deprivation or if he took a massive dose of something.

EDIT #5: Wow...KrisAnne Hall is REALLY bad at this. He was calmed down and she started raising her voice at him.

EDIT #6: Fry states that he's not a Christian, he's a "Messianic Judist(?)". Assuming he means Messianic Jew. Gavin Seim got a lot quieter after that.

EDIT #7: And now he's ranting abut UFOs, and how we should all be on solar now, and earlier was arguing against "drone strikes on Pakistani kids". And KrisAnne Hall continues to be detrimental to the situation by injecting herself into the conversation and trying to play "bad cop" (I guess?). He actually seems calmest and most rational when on the phone with the FBI.

[smjjames]

They should give him his weed so that he calms down.

Not sure on the legality of that in Oregon though.

[RedKing]

Now Fry just said he wished he had called "a Muslim cleric". Also complains that we "spent all this money to destroy Middle Eastern countries. Especially Syria...that was a pretty good country."

His ideology is all over the place. I'm betting some of the other militants would shoot him themselves if they heard some of this.



EDIT: Holy shit, they talked him out. Mad kudos to the FBI agent "Mark"...dude is a damn good negotiator. KrisAnne Hall and Gavin Seim should be banned from ever again dealing with a crisis scenario. They nearly had him pulling the trigger.

He finally agreed to come out if all the FBI waiting outside would say "Hallelujah" (apparently thinking that they were barred from any religious utterances...or maybe that they were actually demons and would be physically unable to..I dunno). When they did, he was genuinely surprised and happy and came out peacefully.

[SalmonGod]

So I'm hearing that despite winning by a significant margin of primary votes in NH, his delegate count from the state is still going to tie with Clinton due to superdelegates?  Makes it really hard not to agree with your earlier sentiments, Redking.

[smjjames]

Yep. The good thing though is that the superdelegates aren't locked in place like regular delegates are and can jump ship at any time. A good deal of them probably would have jumped ship to Biden had he decided to run.

I get that they were made as an attempt to repair the system after that '68 democratic convention, but piling up behind Clinton before anybody started voting to give her an almost 400 delegate head start simply isn't fair no matter how you look at it.

Also: http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-superdelegates-219126

[SalmonGod]

Just looked up the math, according to Google

Delegates needed to win the nomination: 2,382

Superdelegates already pledged to Clinton: 394
Percentage of delegates needed for nomination provided by superdelegate pledges: 16.5%

Superdelegates already pledged to Sanders: 44
Percentage of delegates needed for nomination provided by superdelegate pledges: 1.8%


That is definitely some shit.

[RedKing]

Harry Reid's defense of superdelegates: Iowa and New Hampshire are just too damn white.

[SalmonGod]

His response doesn't even make sense.

[nenjin]

Seems to be riding the fence down the middle. "It was terrible 8 years ago, and it's terrible now. It doesn't make any sense! But it's getting better!"

[RedKing]

Seems to be riding the fence down the middle. "It was terrible 8 years ago, and it's terrible now. It doesn't make any sense! But it's getting better!"

Are we talking superdelegates or the Republican primaries? 

[SalmonGod]

Seems to be riding the fence down the middle. "It was terrible 8 years ago, and it's terrible now. It doesn't make any sense! But it's getting better!"

He says that Iowa and NH can't decide who the president will be for the rest of the country, doesn't explain how that is actually happening (it's not like they're deciding other state's delegates...), and doesn't explain how superdelegates are supposed to be addressing this concern of his.  Just throws out these statements without relating them to the question and says it's wrong but getting better... wtf?  That's republican debate level chewbacca defense.

[smjjames]

Eh? Now Reid says that a contested Dem convention is possible. It was just mentioned on CNN, going to see if I can find an actual article.

A contested convention on both sides would be !!!FUN!!! for everybody.

[mainiac]

That is definitely some shit.

If by "some shit" you mean "the system doing exactly what it said it would do".

Clinton represents the party much better then Sanders does.  She is more competative in a general.*  The party actors are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.

*if you say she isn't by citing head to head poll before the first republican attack ads against Sanders then we have nothing to talk about.