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[sluissa]

US foreign relations are already at the lowest point they've been in a long time. Russia is belligerent again, China is starting to test its boundaries and our allies hate us cause we spy on them(although I suppose they probably knew to some extent, but they at least have to wag their fingers now that it's out in the open.) And we've got 60 years of interference in developing country politics to give us a lot of bad blood to deal with there that we never properly dealt with. Even Israel is giving us the stink eye.

I doubt any of the candidates would do much harm to the current situation.

EDIT:

@Redking: I know running from edge to center isn't all that strange. But Trump actively sabotaging other players within his own party with as much hashness as he's doing... most politicans do it as a career. They fight each other for spots but hold back knowing they often have to work with these people in some manner. Trump just goes back to his mansion at the end of the day so he has no need to hold back on anyone.

[Loud Whispers]

US foreign relations are already at the lowest point they've been in a long time. Russia is belligerent again, China is starting to test its boundaries and our allies hate us cause we spy on them(although I suppose they probably knew to some extent, but they at least have to wag their fingers now that it's out in the open.) And we've got 60 years of interference in developing country politics to give us a lot of bad blood to deal with there that we never properly dealt with. Even Israel is giving us the stink eye.
I doubt any of the candidates would do much harm to the current situation.

Also on the European stage Obama sold British nuclear codes to Russia, was caught spying on German citizens including Merkel herself and has won little friends in Ukraine

[Sheb]

What is that "sold nuclear codes to Russia" thing?

[smjjames]

What is that "sold nuclear codes to Russia" thing?

Either Snowden or Wikileaks, or both.

[sluissa]

What is that "sold nuclear codes to Russia" thing?

It's not as bad as it sounds... US and Russia were dealing on (something) and as part of the deal, the US gave Russia the serial numbers to a number of nuclear weapons controlled by Britain. (US built weapons). I think in the end all it is is accountability of nuclear weapon numbers. It doesn't give Russia control over anything. But it is a bit of mud in Britain's eye that it was done around them.

[RedKing]

I would dispute the assertion that our foreign relations are the worst in a long time. Europe is still generally friendly towards us, more so than they were in the low ebb of the Iraq War, when countries starting withdrawing from the "Coalition of the Willing" in droves. A lot of the shit European leaders are upset about were programs initiated pre-Obama.

US-China relations are generally good, though there is the dustup over sovereign waters now.

US-Russia relations are frosty, but then that's not really our fault. Putin gonna Putin.

Obama-Netanyahu relations are bad, but Netanyahu is not Israel and Obama is not the US. And frankly it's about time Israeli relations got less chummy, IMHO.

[mainiac]

US foreign relations are already at the lowest point they've been in a long time.

2008 is a long time ago?

[sluissa]

For one, Israel has always given the US the stink eye. Didn't they once shoot a torpedo at a US ship to make a point? That was in the... 60's or 80's, can't recall exactly.

This is all besides the point, anyway- the goal of the next few US presidents should be to repair foreign relations, not damage them even more.

That ship sinking had some... subtext to it... based on something I've heard from a source I trust but been told not to repeat. It was also in the middle of a war and could easily (and was for a while) written off as accidental.



Re: foreign relations. I'd say the total amount of hatred we've accrued is worse than anything since pre-WW2. Our economy is the only thing keeping us from losing friends.

[i2amroy]

FDR's sort of a special case because of the war.

Even just looking at the orders before WWII he still clears the "most orders" by a fair bit. Just looking at the orders that he posted before the war, he still had over 2215 peacetime executive orders issued, 400 more than Wilson (who had the second most due to WWI) had in his entire presidency.

(Part of the reason he felt so safe in issuing so many was also of course, that was that he was responsible for putting 6 of the 9 total justices of the Supreme Court on there ).

Edit: Ah, ninjas!
Edit2: Ah, double ninja in literally the time it took me to type the first ninja!

[TheBiggerFish]

For one, Israel has always given the US the stink eye. Didn't they once shoot a torpedo at a US ship to make a point? That was in the... 60's or 80's, can't recall exactly.

This is all besides the point, anyway- the goal of the next few US presidents should be to repair foreign relations, not damage them even more.

That ship sinking had some... subtext to it... based on something I've heard from a source I trust but been told not to repeat. It was also in the middle of a war and could easily (and was for a while) written off as accidental.



Re: foreign relations. I'd say the total amount of hatred we've accrued is worse than anything since pre-WW2. Our economy is the only thing keeping us from losing friends.

Aaand that economy is probably going to try and implode again the next time we have to deal with a budget, joy.
Is it too late to move to Canada?

[smjjames]

US-China relations are generally good, though there is the dustup over sovereign waters now.

Good? more like lukewarm with some icecubes what with the hacking stuff going on and general economic stuff, and the whole South China Sea is a thing that has been simmering for a while now.

Also, wasn't the whole NSA stuff started by Bush, not Obama? He simply let the stuff continue.

While Obama does okay in the appeasement diplomacy department, he's not so great in the 'strong stance' department.

[mainiac]

Re: foreign relations. I'd say the total amount of hatred we've accrued is worse than anything since pre-WW2. Our economy is the only thing keeping us from losing friends.

So your hypothesis is that Clinton is more hated by say, the French or Koreans or Egyptians, then the wars in Iraq and Vietnam?

I can't think of something sufficiently passive aggressive to say at this time.

I can't find comprehensive information either but here's a little game to play.  Go to this website:
http://www.pewglobal.org/database/indicator/1/survey/17/

Click on 2015, then click on 2005.  Compare.

[smjjames]

Re: foreign relations. I'd say the total amount of hatred we've accrued is worse than anything since pre-WW2. Our economy is the only thing keeping us from losing friends.

So your hypothesis is that Clinton is more hated by say, the French or Koreans or Egyptians, then the wars in Iraq and Vietnam?

I can't think of something sufficiently passive aggressive to say at this time.

I can't find comprehensive information either but here's a little game to play.  Go to this website:
http://www.pewglobal.org/database/indicator/1/survey/17/

Click on 2015, then click on 2005.  Compare.

Kind of hard to compare those years because there are a heck of a lot more countries listed for 2015 (for both categories) than 2005.

Edit: Jordan seems to have never liked the US very much anyway.

[Loud Whispers]

What is that "sold nuclear codes to Russia" thing?

Serial codes, not launch codes. Britain's nuclear policy has ambiguity as one of its tenets, in that no one really knew besides Murrica how many Britain had. And then Russia found out and decided it'd be great fun to bugger everywhere from Dover to Donbass.

Good? more like lukewarm with some icecubes what with the hacking stuff going on and general economic stuff, and the whole South China Sea is a thing that has been simmering for a while now.

Interesting that they promised consequences. Just... Consequences. 2spooky

[smjjames]

What is that "sold nuclear codes to Russia" thing?

Serial codes, not launch codes. Britain's nuclear policy has ambiguity as one of its tenets, in that no one really knew besides Murrica how many Britain had. And then Russia found out and decided it'd be great fun to bugger everywhere from Dover to Donbass.

Good? more like lukewarm with some icecubes what with the hacking stuff going on and general economic stuff, and the whole South China Sea is a thing that has been simmering for a while now.

Interesting that they promised consequences. Just... Consequences. 2spooky

Who promised consequences? the US? Or are you talking about the South China Sea stuff?