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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1548304 times)

Playergamer

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Reelya

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4636 on: September 29, 2015, 06:50:03 am »

A lot of the issue is that after the 1980's war we pulled out all support for Afghanistan and let it fall into civil war. What we should have done is throw the full weight of support behind Massoud. The guy would have been perfect. Intelligent, miltary genius, sane, respected and by Afghan people as a whole, and willing to cooperate with other countries. Would have been the perfect guy to hold the place together. But we let him get wiped out despite him being a US ally during the 1980s.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 06:51:57 am by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4637 on: September 29, 2015, 09:29:33 am »

*grumble grumble* Now it looks like the Taliban have US equipment that the Afghan army and police outright abandoned because they deserted before the Taliban attacked Kunduz.....

Why does this keep happening to us? lol.............

Anyhow, it seems like whatever we do in the MidEast comes back to bite us in the butt, often years or decades later, that we need to just back off, but then again, terrorists, so we gotta go back in, then we go back out, shit happens, then we go back in, rinse and repeat........
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4638 on: September 29, 2015, 09:44:10 am »

Gotta break a few eggs to make an omelette.  Just burying our heads in the sand wont make the problems go away and there are no easy solutions.  Bush unfortunately took this to an illogical extreme.  The long term view is to accept that there will be failures along the way.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4639 on: September 29, 2015, 09:55:26 am »

Reading about Massoud...two days before 9/11? Damn.  I wouldn't be very surprised if they'd been keeping the hijackings on the back burner, and waited for confirmation he was dead before proceeding. If he was still leading the Northern Alliance when we got into Afghanistan...damn. The fight against the Taliban to begin with would've been easier, with such a respected, powerful, good local leader backed by NATO, and I bet the government would be less corrupt.

Damn.

Oh well. We got ourselves, and the people of Afghanistan + Iraq into this mess. We'd better sort it out.
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mainiac

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4640 on: September 29, 2015, 10:07:32 am »

There is always a white knight behind any story.  If only Trotsky had beaten Stalin!
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Frumple

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4641 on: September 29, 2015, 10:14:03 am »

Ha ha. Yeah, let's sort it out. Like all the other times we've "sorted" it out. It's gone so well, previously. Surely this time won't be a fuck up as colossal as the rest.

Unrelated, I have a wide variety of bridges in wondrous locals available for sell for very reasonable prices, and it would appear I've found a market whose pattern recognition capabilities matches my ideal customer profile. There may be just a little snark there, but seriously, wanting to screw this up again -- and let's be honest, time and time again we have demonstrated that is exactly what we will do -- is what amounts to the bloody definition of insanity. We're not doing a good job at this shit. We are apparently pathologically incapable of doing a good job at this shit.

Maybe we need to get someone else in on this. Probably a lot of someones. We've made it incredibly clear we're massively goddamn incompetent when it comes to doing anything beneficial in the middle east -- we've got several decades now of pretty consistently just fucking everything up. Let's recognize a sunk cost fallacy when we see it. 'Bout time we stiffed someone else with the problem and see if they can do any better. Considering how low the bar is there, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone able to show some improvement.

Hell, bonus points, the EU et al are actually getting screwed a bit over all this shit, too, now. They might actually be able to be convinced to get up and do something meaningful. Or we could end up doing what the rest of the world seems largely intent on and let it go to rot. At this point, I mostly expect that would actually improve the situation in the long run. And probably every other run, too.
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penguinofhonor

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4642 on: September 29, 2015, 10:23:52 am »

Not that I want us to intervene, but wasn't there a little while where we tried to wait for someone else to do something and ISIS just kind of swept across Iraq?
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Playergamer

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4643 on: September 29, 2015, 10:30:50 am »

i love how frumple can rant on and on about literally anything i write.

its hilarious.
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Frumple

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4644 on: September 29, 2015, 10:40:01 am »

Not really you. The continual gung-ho attitude towards incessantly and ineffectually slamming our head into the same goddamn wall has been more than a little irritating over the last... shit, ever from my perspective. We've been screwing things up in the middle east since literally before I was born, actively and consistently since I was capable of paying attention to geopolitics, and our apparent collective incapability of realizing that maybe we're not good at this is just a wee titch old at this point.

Seriously, how many more decades are we going to bugger things up over there before it finally sinks in we're not exactly helping?

E: And yeah, poh, ISIS swept right across the Iraq we had hamhandedly crippled in the most brain-breakingly stupid of ways.

Honestly, I'd actually be okay with intervention so long as it's not american led, and we don't make up a majority of the soldiers and munitions. Still wouldn't like it, but at least we might have someone on hand to keep us from screwing everything over for the Nth+1 time, or at the very least someone else to actually suck up some of the blame and keep us from quite so enthusiastically trying to ram our heads down the sunk cost hole. Again.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 10:46:12 am by Frumple »
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Sheb

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4645 on: September 29, 2015, 10:52:32 am »

Frumple, I believe you're the one with the defective pattern recognition. The fact is that the US is a superpower, and that means it's involve everywhere to a bigger or lesser degree. So yeah, every time something blow up somewhere, there will be some US involvement in the region. It does not follow that the US is the cause (or even a cause) of the mess every single time.
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Drakale

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4646 on: September 29, 2015, 10:53:56 am »

You seem to assume that there is some master plan, and that this plan failed leading the the actual clusterfuck. But there are no plans, only fleeting interest pursued by governments and individuals for short term gains. Sometimes it's for projecting power, sometimes it's to feed the military industrial complex, sometimes it's for economic reasons. The aim was never to help anyone, and if it does help it would be because it aligned with some ulterior motives that are beneficial for someone.
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Sheb

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4647 on: September 29, 2015, 10:54:28 am »

You seem to assume that there is some master plan, and that this plan failed leading the the actual clusterfuck. But there are no plans, only fleeting interest pursued by governments and individuals for short term gains. Sometimes it's for projecting power, sometimes it's to feed the military industrial complex, sometimes it's for economic reasons. The aim was never to help anyone, and if it does help it would be because it aligned with some ulterior motives that are beneficial for someone.

U so edgy
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Drakale

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4648 on: September 29, 2015, 10:56:39 am »

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Egan_BW

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Re: American Election Megathread- Voting Trump/Wallace in '168
« Reply #4649 on: September 29, 2015, 10:58:13 am »

lolburdenoftruth
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