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[mainiac]

firefighter brutality?

I never trusted them after playing LCS.

[Fniff]

I had an idea for a rap song called "Fuck the Fire Department", which was about how the Fire Department seems so much nicer then the cops and that means they must be hiding something really really bad.
Anyone up making me into a rap sensation?

[misko27]

What I don't understand is why the response to police brutality is to burn down things completely unrelated to the police. I mean, if they were attacking the police station or something it would make sense in a way, but I don't see how victims of police brutality are avenged when the local pharmacy is looted or McDonalds is burnt down.

If you have the at-present forethought to decide "I'm going to target only the police station!" you're probably not going to engage in a riot. Most non-riot protests DO revolve around the police station or courthouse or whoever is responsible, remember Occupy Wall-Street? Forethought and emotion don't tend to go too well together when emotion is high, and a riot is a very emotional discharge.

Counter-point: looting a drug store is hardly my go-to emotional coping mechanism. It's more like my plan to abuse a collapse in police presence to rob a drug store for its drugs. Probably prescription pain medication, since that seems to be gaining in popularity.

My impression is there is a lot less overlap between the people looting and the people protesting about the death of Freddie Grey than people here realize. From what I can tell, much of the violence is being perpetrated by people who are in the mood for destruction period, not vengeance in particular. Opportunistic looting that has more to do with the taking advantage of chaos then fighting for rights. It hardly does anyone well to defend looting a drug store and attacking firemen as a legitimate expression of rage. And it does bad to the many people with cooler heads who want justice.

Or let me be blunt. Burning and looting exactly justifies an overwhelming police response, and it immediately turns people in favor of the cops. You are not going to overturn the US government by violence, and the government will hardly be cowed by a couple riots (not that that is a moral way of doing things anyway), so it's not like there's an endgame to the violence. And if there's no endgame, there's no point. So as far as I see, every single riot just loses ground towards fixing things.

[Frumple]

I'unno, there's an argument that negative attention is better than none whatsoever -- at least the subject is noted and being spoken of, even if the riot itself causes negative sentiment. Opens the way for discussion and attention where there wasn't before. If these riots hadn't occurred, would gorram anyone be talking about the situation in baltimore at the moment? Would the non-violent protests actually garnered any note worth note? We have protests and pushback pretty regularly, from what I understand, and most of the time basically no one outside of the people protesting (and maybe cops or who have you that come in to abuse people a little for the jollies or whyeverthehell they decide to assault peaceful protesters) notice.

Riots are a helluva' lot harder to ignore. You can argue that they're ineffective for opening communication, but that's a question I'd personally say is not clear cut.

That said, as I've seen noted elsewhere, the violent folks involved in these things are usually a pretty minor, well, minority, of protesters. Most people up in arms aren't looting drugstores. There's people coming in to take advantage of what's happening, but that's far from most of the folks there. And there are people that are just pissed off and lashing out and whatever's closest.

As the aside, folks aren't really saying that rioting and looting is a legitimate expression of rage, just an expected one. Tellin' people that this is sorta' what happens isn't saying it's a rightful thing, just trying to convince people that, y'know, maybe we should try to avoid it reaching this point.

[SalmonGod]

I still think rioting has its place and purpose....  and the more things like this happen, the more I think that purpose is to give bystanders a chance to put on display just how fucking lopsided their perspectives and priorities are.

When some bullied kid is beaten up and his lunch money stolen every day until he finally brings a gun into school and does something drastic, is it proper and constructive to focus all our attention and criticism on the bully'd kid's reaction?  Do we really want to critique whether he reacted properly to the situation, and employed the best possible strategies for resolving his conflicts?  Actually, having been in high school when Columbine happened, I'm keenly aware that this is what does happen... sadly... but I expect Bay12 to be mature enough to understand that this is a really stupid way to look at it.  The focus should be on how fucked up it is that the kid was bullied to the point of believing that this was his only option, and what we can do to prevent anyone from being subject to such treatment in the future.

Now apply this to poverty and minorities.

Here's someone saying the same thing with more words.

[FearfulJesuit]

O'Malley's on the ground in Baltimore right now. Wonder if that'll change the primary tune...

[nenjin]

O'Malley's on the ground in Baltimore right now. Wonder if that'll change the primary tune...

Eh. Trying to capitalize politically on something like this is a risky gamble no matter who tries it.

[Bauglir]

Here's someone saying the same thing with more words.

When we, as white folks, seem more eager to speak up in defense of property than we are to speak up in defense of another slain black man, we demonstrate that the righteous anger of those doing the rioting is justified.

Pretty much, yeah.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Here's someone saying the same thing with more words.

When we, as white folks, seem more eager to speak up in defense of property than we are to speak up in defense of another slain black man, we demonstrate that the righteous anger of those doing the rioting is justified.

Pretty much, yeah.

the problem with that logic is that the vast majority of people do not care, because frankly how could most of us actually know what happened? However, as soon as someone perceived outside that situation is involved in any wrongdoing, tons people who just moments ago did not care, are wildly offended that you've attacked some innocent's livelihood. That's how I see it anyways.

[SalmonGod]

Here's someone saying the same thing with more words.

When we, as white folks, seem more eager to speak up in defense of property than we are to speak up in defense of another slain black man, we demonstrate that the righteous anger of those doing the rioting is justified.

Pretty much, yeah.

the problem with that logic is that the vast majority of people do not care, because frankly how could most of us actually know what happened? However, as soon as someone perceived outside that situation is involved in any wrongdoing, tons people who just moments ago did not care, are wildly offended that you've attacked some innocent's livelihood. That's how I see it anyways.

The way I see it is if there were a riot every time a cop wrongfully killed someone, it would quickly stop happening.  Regardless of public opinion or morality.  For the public, ignorance would no longer be bliss.  For the government, the costs would outweigh the benefits of allowing corrupt and sloppy policing to continue.

We've fucking transformed our society in reaction to a single incident where a couple thousand people died.  Why does the violent deaths of thousands of undeserving people at the hands of police as a continuous trend not qualify for some drastic measures?

[mainiac]

O'Malley's on the ground in Baltimore right now. Wonder if that'll change the primary tune...

He was already dead in the water.  I dont even think he could have won in Maryland if Maryland was the first state to hold a primary.  He left office here with a whimper, not a bang and Maryland dems are still shellshocked about his chosen successor losing to a goddamn republican.

What I don't understand is why the response to police brutality is to burn down things completely unrelated to the police.

Do you not actually understand how the human emotion known as anger works or are you just doing conservative trolling where you make statements about alienation towards the disenfranchised so that you get to feel cool for hating on the poor people instead of feeling like a bully?

[Angle]

Fight! Fight! Fight!

...actuall no. Let's all calm down and not murder each other, k'thanks please?

[GreatJustice]

Do you not actually understand how the human emotion known as anger works or are you just doing conservative trolling where you make statements about alienation towards the disenfranchised so that you get to feel cool for hating on the poor people instead of feeling like a bully?

When I get angry at someone for wronging me, my immediate reaction is to find a random bystander, beat them up, and jack their stuff to feel better about it.

Anyhow, this isn't some sort of class war, this is a mob of idiots (a large portion of whom could care less about police brutality and just want to steal shit) turning Baltimore into Detroit. The buildings being burned down and attacked are the homes and small businesses that actually support people in the area, owned by the very same people victimized by police abuses. I can understand anger and I can understand why there are riots, but it strikes me as a bit boneheaded to try to actually claim the riots are justified, especially when they actually give ammunition to the types of people that advocate giving military equipment to the police.

[Descan]

Point me who said it was justified.

[GreatJustice]

Point me who said it was justified.

That's quite easy, unfortunately