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Author Topic: Murrican Politics Megathread 2016: There Will Be Hell Toupée  (Read 1582550 times)

Darvi

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1440 on: April 16, 2015, 11:00:27 am »

Di you think each post lives in it's own separate world space, of something?
Each post only lives in the world that its poster perceives, which may be completely unrelated to whatever worlds the other posters live in.
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Digital Hellhound

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1441 on: April 16, 2015, 11:04:51 am »

For example, most posters in the last few pages seem to live in a world where this is the 20th-Century Dictators Megathread and not the Election Megathread. Nothing happening in the US, I guess?
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wierd

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1442 on: April 16, 2015, 11:10:56 am »

No, there was a pretty spectacular political stunt by a guy in a gyrocopter landing on the western lawn of the capitol building, carrying hundreds of petition letters demanding campaign finance reform.

The big thing the press and the government have over it? "He violated the no-fly, and that makes us feel scared and unsafe!" (Nevermind that both he and a friend of his reported that he was going to do it preemptively to us, and we refused to take it seriously. I mean, the gall, actually doing something ballsy-stupid after telling us about it, so we look bad for ignoring it!)

Not even a single meta-comment from the press about how and why somebody had to resort to such a ballsy tactic to break the ice on the issue. Instead, they want to avoid having that ice broken at all costs, apparently.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 11:12:27 am by wierd »
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RedKing

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1443 on: April 16, 2015, 12:13:11 pm »

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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

mainiac

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1444 on: April 16, 2015, 12:51:04 pm »

Not even a single meta-comment from the press about how and why somebody had to resort to such a ballsy tactic to break the ice on the issue. Instead, they want to avoid having that ice broken at all costs, apparently.

NPR was asking that.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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FearfulJesuit

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1445 on: April 16, 2015, 01:10:27 pm »

Well....I did not see THAT coming.

I'd like to hail this as the dawning of a second golden age of Rockefeller Republicans, except for the part where Reaganites basically chased him out of town in 2006. Oh well, you take what you can get.
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mainiac

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1446 on: April 16, 2015, 01:26:09 pm »

Rockefeller 2: Electric Bugaloo?
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

scriver

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1447 on: April 16, 2015, 03:45:48 pm »

I see he's from Rhode Island. Isn't that one of those super-corrupt states?
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mainiac

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1448 on: April 17, 2015, 09:53:01 am »

I think they stopped that in the 30s?
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
--------------
[CAN_INTERNET]
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1449 on: April 17, 2015, 10:08:39 am »

Considering that we're now Ready For Hillary, it's only a matter of time until somebody makes a survival horror game called Four Years at Hillary's.

sorry m8, do you see a better candidate? There's no other strong democratic contender and on the republican side there are too many. However they're mostly man children and ultra-conservatives. Chris Christie stands a reasonable chance if he runs, but will likely horrify the centrists as the republicans always do to appeal to the far-right base. Honestly, at this point, I don't even support many democratic policies, but Hilary is a beast and I'm fucking disgusted at the republicans. Which is not to say i'm not disgusted at the democrats, but they are at least more reasonable (as far as I can tell) and socially pretty great.

If anything call your game four years at the republican controlled congress *shivers*
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wierd

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1450 on: April 17, 2015, 11:31:26 am »

What we really need, is to somehow make (and properly enforce) a law that makes the willful misrepresentation of information for political purposes illegal, with powerful (like, life in the slammer powerful) punishments for doing so.

That way all this hokum science being churned out by repub thinktanks would blow up spectacularly, and re-inventing the past 1984 mini-truth style like both arms of our govt like to do to get bullshit past the voters would have some powerful negative consequences for them.

Then again, they would just exonerate themselves in a secret court with secret laws or some such shit.

I hate our government and both poltical parties so much I could just puke. The corruption is just too much for me.



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Grim Portent

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1451 on: April 17, 2015, 11:53:25 am »

What we really need, is to somehow make (and properly enforce) a law that makes the willful misrepresentation of information for political purposes illegal, with powerful (like, life in the slammer powerful) punishments for doing so.

That way all this hokum science being churned out by repub thinktanks would blow up spectacularly, and re-inventing the past 1984 mini-truth style like both arms of our govt like to do to get bullshit past the voters would have some powerful negative consequences for them.

Then again, they would just exonerate themselves in a secret court with secret laws or some such shit.

I hate our government and both poltical parties so much I could just puke. The corruption is just too much for me.

If I were founding/reforming a nation I'd probably declare the willful misrepresentation of information for political or financial purposes a form of treason (on the grounds that it undermines the democratic process and harms voter trust in the state), write into the constitution that only active police and military actions are allowed to be classified and a few other bits and pieces.

Would probably also declare that politicians not recording and publicly presenting all negotiations they have with other nations and corporations as treason as well.
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who many would consider brave.
With a head like a block
he went out for a sock,
his ass I won't bother to save.

PTTG??

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1452 on: April 17, 2015, 12:03:27 pm »

What we really need, is to somehow make (and properly enforce) a law that makes the willful misrepresentation of information for political purposes illegal, with powerful (like, life in the slammer powerful) punishments for doing so.

That way all this hokum science being churned out by repub thinktanks would blow up spectacularly, and re-inventing the past 1984 mini-truth style like both arms of our govt like to do to get bullshit past the voters would have some powerful negative consequences for them.

Then again, they would just exonerate themselves in a secret court with secret laws or some such shit.

I hate our government and both poltical parties so much I could just puke. The corruption is just too much for me.

If I were founding/reforming a nation I'd probably declare the willful misrepresentation of information for political or financial purposes a form of treason (on the grounds that it undermines the democratic process and harms voter trust in the state), write into the constitution that only active police and military actions are allowed to be classified and a few other bits and pieces.

Would probably also declare that politicians not recording and publicly presenting all negotiations they have with other nations and corporations as treason as well.

"Why can't I read about this police action from 200 years ago?"
"That action is still active."
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SirQuiamus

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1453 on: April 17, 2015, 12:17:52 pm »

What we really need, is to somehow make (and properly enforce) a law that makes the willful misrepresentation of information for political purposes illegal, with powerful (like, life in the slammer powerful) punishments for doing so.

That way all this hokum science being churned out by repub thinktanks would blow up spectacularly, and re-inventing the past 1984 mini-truth style like both arms of our govt like to do to get bullshit past the voters would have some powerful negative consequences for them.

Then again, they would just exonerate themselves in a secret court with secret laws or some such shit.

I hate our government and both poltical parties so much I could just puke. The corruption is just too much for me.

If I were founding/reforming a nation I'd probably declare the willful misrepresentation of information for political or financial purposes a form of treason (on the grounds that it undermines the democratic process and harms voter trust in the state), write into the constitution that only active police and military actions are allowed to be classified and a few other bits and pieces.

Would probably also declare that politicians not recording and publicly presenting all negotiations they have with other nations and corporations as treason as well.
That kind of policy is currently being implemented, at the behest of upstanding politicians, in several democratic countries around the world: In Hungary, Turkey, and Russia, for example.
+1 For Police State.     
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wierd

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Re: Bay12 2016 Election Megathread- It Was Inevitable
« Reply #1454 on: April 17, 2015, 12:58:28 pm »

The misuse of "treason" is another of my pet peeves.

What *IS* treason?  The willful act of assisting the established enemies of a nation, so as to enable those enemies to strike, and cause harm to the nation.

What is treason?
Treason is joining a terrorist group, and planting bombs.
Treason is telling foreign intelligence agencies where the president's plane will stop for fuel so it can be blown up with him on board.
Treason is is giving away the plans and sourcecode for missile defense systems to hostile nations.

Things that are NOT treason:
Exposing the wrongdoing of the nation's political elite.
Exposing systemic faults in policy and process that puts everyone at risk, that go unfixed because "that's hard." (allowing the faults to exist is what puts people at risk. Exposing the faults is the first step toward forcing a fix!)
Expressing anti-government sentiment about how the nation is being run, especially when backed with real, credible evidence of mismanagement (Because the mismanagement is a far bigger threat to the actual safety and security of the country! See the Holodomor and pals comments from the previous pages)

However, people are reactionary things that dont like using their brains for some reason.  As such, they see anything that upsets the "Comfort zone" (which includes ILLUSIONS of safety, without considering ACTUAL safety) as threatening, and thus make absurd leaps about what constitutes "Treason."  This allows the psychopathic a-holes in political office to galvanize absurd responses, and as Voltaire rightly pointed out over a century ago-- "those that can be made to believe absurdities, can be made to commit atrocities."

As such, I am NOT in favor of branding things that are totally NOT treason, as being "Treason." That just hands carte-blanche to the police state to do whatever, which is antithetical to my views on how government is supposed to be.

No-- willful misrepresentation of vital information for political gain is and should be its own separate offence with its own, specifically prescribed, remedy(ies).  Completely independent and legally distinct from treason charges.  The bar to prove it NEEDS to be pretty high, otherwise it too can be misused as a weapon of the police state. (You need to prove the WILLFUL part. Much like proving premeditation in murder-1 cases. That means establishing motive, and producing a chain of evidence and testimony to prove beyond reasonable doubt.) It also needs to have some granularity in enforcement, because zero tolerance is absurd. (Say I use a sarcastic comment that is clearly intended to invoke poe's law on twitter, or on a forum.  It is intended to cause confusion about information that has been presented (officially), so that people think about the information, and ask if it has been misrepresented, by presenting it willfully misrepresented-- a kind of strawman argument intended to promote discussion-- a caricature, a parody. It is willful misrepresentation, AND for political reasons! Should I be jailed for life for doing it? ;P What about actual acts of parody-- that is willful misrepresentation as well.)

The trouble here is that we have politicians that are working out of Cardinal Richelieu's playbook. "Give me 10 lines written by the most honest man on earth, and I shall find something with which to hang him."  Etc.  Laws intended to entrap the oppressors, are captured and picked up by the oppressors to enslave the masses.  That's why the weapons we make against them need to have strong requirements for use and employment. It should NEVER be "easy" for government to "Do something", no matter how many children and single mothers are involved. Tugging on heart strings should be interpreted as an instant red-flag, not as genuine heart-felt empathy-- Sociopaths are incapable of empathy. Only exploitation.  Government should always be considered to be a sociopath. Don't trust it. Ever.


Personally, if I were the one trying to produce a national framework from which to genuinely assist the public in defense, civil liberty preservation, and improvements in quality of life for all--- I would would outright spell out that government is evil, and not to be trusted in the very foundational framework of that new government, and outright inform the public in that document that it is THEIR duty to ALWAYS hold animosity toward the workings of government; to FORCE transparency and never relent on it, no matter how many claims of "national security" there are-- to FORCE the prevention politicians becoming politicians for life, no matter how many claims of "experience" there are-- etc.  That the government is a sociopath on a chain, kept there to protect the citizens of the country when and only when needed. It is brutal and unfeeling in its modes of operation, and will crush you just as easily and willfully as it crushes the enemies of the public. Freeing it is to let loose a destructive force unimaginable upon themselves, and as such it's hands must always be tightly bound, and control tightly retained by them, the general public.

THAT's the kind of baseline I would approach it from. 

« Last Edit: April 17, 2015, 01:19:34 pm by wierd »
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