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[TheDarkStar]

TheDarkStar: What sort of advantages do the scum have in a sprint game? Does that worry you?

This (along with the rest of your post) seems to be written to get advice in playing scum, UXLZ. Why is this?

Scripten: Green is a nice color.

[UXLZ]

This (along with the rest of your post) seems to be written to get advice in playing scum, UXLZ. Why is this?

Please, please actually read things before jumping to conclusions. Re-read that specific post, then the one I made in response to Scripten. Think about it for a second, and then we can keep discussing it if you still have questions.

[hector13]

hector13: How long do you think you'd be able to keep up the image of being a scum over a townie without a slip?

Not sure. I could lurk for a bit to avoid risking any slippage, at least for a portion of the first day.

I like to think I'm good at things before I actually try them, only discover this is far, far, far from the truth. So, the short answer would probably be "not long after someone put pressure on me".

Also:

...I won't always get to be a townie...

Well played.

Just in the interests of complete disclosure, how would you play, if you were scum?

DarkStar, are you a Hibs fan, by any chance? 

[TheDarkStar]

Hm, it seems that I missed the last post you made. Reading...

And it doesn't change the fact that your post consisted of trying to find advice on how to play scum. My vote stays where it is.

PPE: Yeah, that townclaim doesn't actually make you look any better. Anyone can say that they are town.

hector13: Nope. How many different places are there where someone used something similar to my username, anyway? I've heard at least three or four of them.

[UXLZ]

Not sure. I could lurk for a bit to avoid risking any slippage, at least for a portion of the first day.

I like to think I'm good at things before I actually try them, only discover this is far, far, far from the truth. So, the short answer would probably be "not long after someone put pressure on me".

Also

Hehe, true enough for me as well, on the first part at least. I don't like the idea of this 'pressure', though. Relying on it seems ridiculous as it's the kind of thing that would only work against beginners, though I can't claim to know if that's actually true. I believe I have three votes against myself at the moment, and it isn't really that much of a concern. Of course, I could be lynched, but in that case I guess I'll learn not to... Try to learn?

Well played.

It's a true statement though, factually speaking at least. Of course, only the scum and I know what I really am. After today, the cop might as well. Depending on how suspicious I'm really acting. Though this all lays under the assumption that I'm not just killed off for the crime of being active.
Truthfully speaking, as this is irrelevant to the current game hopefully you'll believe me, I prefer to be town anyway. It's simply less stressful.

Just in the interests of complete disclosure, how would you play, if you were scum?

No idea, though I'd like to think it would be similar to how I'm playing now, I can't really say for sure... I remember that, in the SC2 custom map I used to play in, the mafia members tended to be quite quiet. Maybe I'd be like that? Who knows.
How I would play is impossible to know, how I would intend to play is, hopefully, 'flawless'.

[hector13]

You do seem to be trying quite hard to appear as town, UXLZ.

Not enough for me to want to vote for you, yet, but in saying that you are one vote away from having a majority against you. Perhaps you have concerns about another player you'd like to voice to convince me they're more likely to be scum than you?

[UXLZ]

I sure am garnering a lot attention, aren't I? Well, it's all useful, regardless.

And it doesn't change the fact that your post consisted of trying to find advice on how to play scum. My vote stays where it is.

Leave your vote where you want it to be. In response to the rest... Firstly I'm not trying to get advice on how to play scum, I'm trying to get advice on how a scum would think. Even if you don't believe me and think I'm trying to learn how to play it... Where's the problem in that? It might be my naivety showing through but I fail to see how that is an issue. In fact, I think it's actively a non-issue. That is to say, any advice given would have no effect on this game in particular. At least, in the context of the advice itself. If you understand that and are simply trying to prevent people from learning how to play, or at least, how it is perceived they should play the sum in any game ever I'd say that's quite short-sighted.

PPE: Yeah, that townclaim doesn't actually make you look any better. Anyone can say that they are town.

That wasn't what I was trying to bring attention to. Even ignoring that, I fail to see how saying 'I will not always be the town' is a town claim. You're reading into it too much, in this case. As I noted in my above post it is factually, 100% correct. At least, taken out of context like that.


PPE:

You do seem to be trying quite hard to appear as town, UXLZ.

Or maybe what I'm saying just naturally makes me appear as town?
You are though, of course, correct. That doesn't really matter though, what I'm appearing to be doesn't really matter, what I'm saying objectively should.

Not enough for me to want to vote for you, yet, but in saying that you are one vote away from having a majority against you. Perhaps you have concerns about another player you'd like to voice to convince me they're more likely to be scum than you?

Well, my original concerns were for Deus Asamoth, but in reading the rest of the posts they didn't seem to be the only ones casting random votes so those concerns were unfounded. Dani seemed awfully willing to up the count, voting for me due to my statement of:
(Also, I think they were just upset that I didn't vote for them to bring the vote counts to 1 each.)

I think you're misunderstanding something: Single votes have no power and exert very little pressure. 'Putting on' is quite the overstatement. You're going to need to find a buddy if you want to do that.

Which I'll admit may have been somewhat misguided and asking for trouble. I do think it's true though, which is the reason I believe I'm currently the only player without a standing vote. That, and casting it now would probably bring suspicion levels from healthy to lethal.

DarkStar seems to think that my questions about the mindset of a scum seem to be lynch worthy because... Screw people trying to learn different mindsets? I think people seem to keep interpreting my questions as 'How should I play scum?' rather than 'How does a scum player think?' which is saddening.

Truthfully though, I don't have too many suspicions because all the things I find somewhat suspicious I'm also capable of rationalising. It's kind of an unfortunate thing, but maybe I'm just too... Cautious a player.   

 

[UXLZ]

I think people seem to keep interpreting my questions as 'How should I play scum?' rather than 'How does a scum player think?' which is saddening.

Also noteworthy is that thus far hector13 is the only person to actually answer one of those questions rather than responding with 'You're talking/asking about scum? You must be scum!' Make of that what you will.

Oh, and Asamoth, but his question actually had nothing to do with scum so it's exempt from that point.

[UXLZ]

Note: I'll be having a shower and then going for a walk. No idea when I'll be back, will probably take about one and a half hours? I'll try to get a few more replies in before I leave later tonight.

This is, of course, assuming I don't return to find myself dead as a doornail, in which case my dying words are 'God damnit.'

[hector13]

I would like to point out that DarkStar and Scripten, as the two most experience (I think) players in the game, do seem quick to either vote for or suspect UXLZ for trying to learn how to play.

It would be foolish, in the extreme, for UXLZ to ask questions on how to play as scum and then play as scum based on those answers in the same game.

I've read a few other beginner Mafia games on the forum, and a lot of them have the IC's asking questions in a similar vein to the ones UXLZ asked, without this degree of fuss.

What is different enough in this instance to warrant the suggestion that UXLZ is scum because of that?

[UXLZ]

What is different enough in this instance to warrant the suggestion that UXLZ is scum because of that?

I managed to have a small amount of time to post here before I go for that walk, so I'd like to... Actually, that's a terrible idea. I was going to answer that question for DarkStar and Scripten but that would just be stupid. I do have an idea of why this could be, but I'm going to keep my mouth shut until they answer it themselves.

It would be foolish, in the extreme, for UXLZ to ask questions on how to play as scum and then play as scum based on those answers in the same game.

Thankfully someone seems to have realised this, though I was going to try to avoid using this line of reasoning until death was imminent on the hope that instead of accusing me (or at least, as well as accusing), actually, you know, answer the question rather than dodge it, in which case one of the mafia members may have been foolish enough to play based on that advice.

I'm hoping that this amount of fuss leads to some gain, rather than letting the scum merely stall for time. To get things moving a bit more...

I would like to point out that DarkStar and Scripten, as the two most experience (I think) players in the game, do seem quick to either vote for or suspect UXLZ for trying to learn how to play.

DarkStar's hastiness to vote is noteworthy. Scripten's suspicion, less so, because it's merely suspicion.
Actually, looking back, DarkStar said pretty much exactly the same thing as Scripten, except voting as well. (Note, these don't have the formatting like color and bb code but the quote is verbatim.)

Can you first explain why a town player would want advice on how to play scum?

This (along with the rest of your post) seems to be written to get advice in playing scum, UXLZ. Why is this?

As you can see, Scripten's, while admittedly using the blue font of finger pointing before hand, is actually written quite neutrally and is mostly inquisitor-ey. DarkStar's in contrast is, while asking the same general question, extremely accusatory, also adding in his vote. Now, while there are reasons that I can think of to explain this, I wonder what theirs is. One possibility is trying to knock me off as an 'easy target'. Could you please explain, DarkStar?

[Scripten]

UXLZ:

Not too much. At least, in a newbie game like this. I'd assume four courses of action: Kill the IC (noting that this won't happen if he's a scum)

I missed this before. This bothers me, because it appears that you are setting up a bogus case later on so as to mislynch the IC when he is not killed overnight.

Please read the entire post. My reasoning, if somewhat flawed, is already there, though it's an answer to a different question than this one specifically. I'd also like to add that this is my first game of this sort of Mafia. I'll need to learn how play both sides at some point since I won't always get to be a townie. It's better to do it when I stand to lose less.

Scum try to act like town who are scumhunting others. I really don't see how this is useful.

Barring what I said above, I think you've also misunderstood the question. I'm asking about the mindset, not the action. That's the difference between asking 'How does an apple picker think?' and 'How do you pick apples?'. The town will certainly benefit from the former, somewhat less so from the latter though there is still some benefit to be had.

The problem with this is that each scum is going to play as close to what they think their town play is. You can't quantify that, and generalizing it is mostly useless.

Essentially, I  am not asking advice on how to play scum like you seem to be assuming, I am asking advice on how to think like scum.

Pretend you know the scumteam and go from there.

Scripten: What, in your mind, what would the mindset of a scum in a sprint game be, as opposed to a regular game?

The scum mentality should remain roughly the same.

Mod: Do scum have daytalk, seeing as there are no nights?

hector13:

So, the short answer would probably be "not long after someone put pressure on me".

Read: "I will pretend that I crack under pressure easily so that other players do not examine me too closely."

You do seem to be trying quite hard to appear as town, UXLZ.

Not enough for me to want to vote for you, yet, but in saying that you are one vote away from having a majority against you. Perhaps you have concerns about another player you'd like to voice to convince me they're more likely to be scum than you?

This looks more like a scumbuddy trying to tell their partner to shape up. Could also possibly be scum trying to buddy mislynch bait to get towncred after a flip.

Definitely doesn't feel like town, though.

Also noteworthy is that thus far hector13 is the only person to actually answer one of those questions rather than responding with 'You're talking/asking about scum? You must be scum!' Make of that what you will.

And a very interesting response to the coaching/buddying attempt from UXLZ.

I would like to point out that DarkStar and Scripten, as the two most experience (I think) players in the game, do seem quick to either vote for or suspect UXLZ for trying to learn how to play.

And then we get this bit here from hector13, which is quite notable in that it directly conflicts with his earlier post in which HE is suspecting UXLZ. Playing both sides of the fence, hector13?

It would be foolish, in the extreme, for UXLZ to ask questions on how to play as scum and then play as scum based on those answers in the same game.

This is true, but I was not suspecting him solely on that question. Still, you're rather defensive of him, aren't you?

[Dani]

UXLZ

Undeclared L-1 is not cool.
Unvote UXLZ
Vote TheDarkStar
avoids blabbing about ongoing game

Scripten seems to have performed the exact scum tactic he warns about in his theory post.

Can you explain this more? I'm not seeing the link you're making.

A very successful scum tactic, especially among newbie games, is to egg on an argument without investing much in it, and when the player who loses is lynched, to push a wagon the next day on the person who was tunneling them. Keep an eye out for this, but remember, scum are also reading this and will most likely try to turn this technique to their advantage.

see posts #32-36

Admittedly, it's a weak read now, compared with everything else that's going on.

(Also, I think they were just upset that I didn't vote for them to bring the vote counts to 1 each.)

It would have created... a beautiful chain of blame. Never before has the chance to bring senseless order been so spurned. :weeps:

Pre-Post Edit: ninja'd.
Post-Pre-Post Edit: ninja'd again. D:

[Scripten]

Undeclared L-1 is not cool.

I don't think we have hammers in newbie games. All lynches are deadline lynches.

Admittedly, it's a weak read now, compared with everything else that's going on.

Eh, okay. I don't see it, but there's conf bias from knowing my alignment.

[Dani]

By which I mean I have nothing to say right now about the two posts before my previous post.

PPE: ...Ah.
unvote
*kicks self*