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[fomori]

Is the undead curse hardcoded? If it isn't then you can change it to make them weaker (or even stronger if you're insane and/or a masochist ) but yea, a difficulty setting for undead would be nice.

I think the code for those is in the raws under the file "interaction examples", I believe that the Necromancer one is "interaction_secret" with this being the zombie's code

They're called "interaction examples" explicitly because they are examples; modifying them will do nothing.

However if you put a modified version of the example text into the folder for standard interactions, they'll appear in world generation. Do that whilst setting Secrets to 0 on advanced worldgen and voila.

[k9wazere]

Would be nice if they didn't have phantom bodies too. An undead hand should not be able to swing a punch, much less a single punch which caves in my armored elite soldiers' heads almost every time. The most an undead hand should be able to do is walk like a crab and choke an unarmored target.

[Ops Fox]

Would be nice if they didn't have phantom bodies too. An undead hand should not be able to swing a punch, much less a single punch which caves in my armored elite soldiers' heads almost every time. The most an undead hand should be able to do is walk like a crab and choke an unarmored target.

Why unarmored? no true warrior covers his throat haven't you read combat reports?

I would think the overall issue of zombie qualities would be handled procedurally eventually, maybe even several types of procedural zombies for a given world with some being unique to a given necromancer or place. A big issue with the zombies is that the game does not model damage done to weapons when they strike something, a platinum war hammer no matter how dense should deform when it strikes an armored warrior. A human fist striking a armored opponent should not be equivalent of hitting someone with a mace, it should deal damage back to the hand based on how much force is used which would in turn limit how hard someone punches.

[Urist Tilaturist]

Bevors should be added to DF.

[BoredVirulence]

... A human fist striking a armored opponent should not be equivalent of hitting someone with a mace, it should deal damage back to the hand based on how much force is used which would in turn limit how hard someone punches.

I'm just saying, the day this happens we won't have people reducing the force in their punches, we'll have people pulping their hands in regular combat. Mark my words! Of course, the next bug fix release would fix it, but it will be amusing the first time...

[Loud Whispers]

I for one an rather pleased with undead being competent and threatening; it actually makes them interesting and well... Threatening. I don't see why there has to be a conflict of undead, if anything DF is more than capable of having both the living dead and the undead, competent critters and shambling corpses can both represent varieties much like how husks represent the unkillable soulless murdermachine out to end all life variety of undead.


One thing I would like to see return, is the option to unfix a certain bug involving werecreatures and undead. There was once a bug that meant werecreature bits that resurrected would still carry the curse, with the result being that if you chopped off the hands and head of a werecreature and resurrected those bits (or if an evil biome resurrected those bits, for example) upon the full moon those bits would become three fully formed and healed copies of were creature. The result would be an exponential increase in werecreature corpses that would inevitably swamp a Fortress unless the body parts were incinerated. This was a bug, yes - but it was of such a calamitous and entertaining scale that it would be amazing if it returned in some legitimately terrifying corner of the world where the civilized races dare not tread.

[Ops Fox]

I would imagine the Toady One will eventually add some system that procedurally generates zombies from a series of traits, such as retaining knowledge from past live, being able to learn, increased strength, not rotting, infectious, competent in combat skills etc etc. Then have undead of vary strengths, like a newly minted necromancer's zombies would get to pick two traits while older necromancer's zombies would get three or four traits. Undead caused by random events or evil biomes could take anywhere from one to three traits.

Then of course the game just wont tell you what sort of zombie your dealing with and you'd have to figure it out when it starts nomming on dwarfs.

[ComatosePhoenix]

I have mixed opinions here, on one hand I like that DF undead are more than just HHHHNNNG BRAAIIINS, and more like the magical skeleton soldiers of myth. Machines that will hack you to pieces. Going of of what someone said earlier about zombies originally being slave workers it would be interesting to see a less... "Chaotic Evil" necromancer tower where the zombies are employed in mundane tasks instead of murder.

[klefenz]

it would be interesting to see a less... "Chaotic Evil" necromancer tower where the zombies are employed in mundane tasks instead of murder.

I think they supposedly do that, as in, the tower didnt build itself, and the necromancer didnt put the bricks in place.

[i2amroy]

I have mixed opinions here, on one hand I like that DF undead are more than just HHHHNNNG BRAAIIINS, and more like the magical skeleton soldiers of myth. Machines that will hack you to pieces.

Indeed, to quote the Dresden Files:

What's the use of a foot soldier who can't do anything but hobble along and moan about brains?

It's nice to see undead that can actually deal some damage (as opposed to your normal "brains" zombie, which pretty much only win through plot powers more than any powers of their own).

[Cobbler89]

I for one an rather pleased with undead being competent and threatening; it actually makes them interesting and well... Threatening. I don't see why there has to be a conflict of undead, if anything DF is more than capable of having both the living dead and the undead, competent critters and shambling corpses can both represent varieties much like how husks represent the unkillable soulless murdermachine out to end all life variety of undead.


One thing I would like to see return, is the option to unfix a certain bug involving werecreatures and undead. There was once a bug that meant werecreature bits that resurrected would still carry the curse, with the result being that if you chopped off the hands and head of a werecreature and resurrected those bits (or if an evil biome resurrected those bits, for example) upon the full moon those bits would become three fully formed and healed copies of were creature. The result would be an exponential increase in werecreature corpses that would inevitably swamp a Fortress unless the body parts were incinerated. This was a bug, yes - but it was of such a calamitous and entertaining scale that it would be amazing if it returned in some legitimately terrifying corner of the world where the civilized races dare not tread.

I could go for were+undead that don't regenerate the rest of the body, just transform the part that happens to be animated -- so, hack off a wereiguana's head, head and body both get reanimated as undead, on the full moon they transform into an undead iguana body and an undead iguana head, undead iguana head bites somebody and turns them into a wereiguana too... Something like that. Makes sense to me.

I could also see undead that grow back bodies as a particularly terrifying sort of undead regardless of werecurses (though, at that point, I don't think it would matter much if they retained werecurses too). Something like that. Makes sense to me.

I'll also second the notion that it's good to have undead that can do more than crawl around mumbling about grey matter -- and that this is more in keeping with traditional/classic undead anyway, skeleton warriors and the like.

[WillowLuman]

IIRC that bug only worked if you chopped off the bits of the werecreature while it was in beast form

The thing about the powerful undead is not that they exist at all, but the basic zombies that necromancers raise by the dozens-to-hundreds are vastly more powerful than the supposedly endgame HFS (either in the underworld or in vaults). The other varieties of undead (except for husks, to which they are now basically identical) are much, much easier to dispose of.

[Neonivek]

I think the undead being so strong is actually really refreshing... and in fact it makes a lot of sense given how this game functions (where a unliving creature would actually be a major obstacle just due to the nature of not being alive).

I like that it makes you look at a herd of zombies and not go "Ohh they are just zombies" they make you go "Ohh no! Zombies!" and you have to reconsider your approach because you know they could do real damage on you.

I certainly do not think zombies should be slow, lumbering, and clumsy (as they do build necromancer towers).

I like to think that Zombies in this case should retain all the muscle memory skills that they had in life. So fighting skills and blocking skills sure. That way the bodies of the skilled are actually valuable to the necromancers giving them a sort of method to their madness. So they could attack a fortress to get at the bodies of the greatest heroes the fortress ever had.

[WillowLuman]

They are nigh-indestructible, super strong (and oftentimes, fast!), any amputations do not hinder them but become more equally capable troops, and in the rare event one gets downed, necromancers can just infinitely re-raise it, since pulping is a rare occurrence against them. Zombified barely-not-vermin can solo an entire clowncar.

[Neonivek]

They are nigh-indestructible, super strong (and oftentimes, fast!), any amputations do not hinder them but become more equally capable troops, and in the rare event one gets downed, necromancers can just infinitely re-raise it, since pulping is a rare occurrence against them. Zombified barely-not-vermin can solo an entire clowncar.

Ohh don't get me wrong... They need to be fixed. Some aspects of them are just flat out broken.

But them being even better then living troops I actually like.

I do think Zombies shouldn't learn (unless they are intelligent undead) but retain all the skills they had in life (but have really low mental stats so intelligence based skills just flat out function badly).

I just like the fact that they aren't shambling fodder versions of the living creature. But rather incredibly scary undead versions of them that are hard to take down because they lack any sort of true anatomy. Things actually get stronger from being made into a zombie (well until their flesh rots off)

heck I even like that Necromancers can raise the body parts that fall off the zombies.