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Author Topic: Females in Games? Thread  (Read 165619 times)

Neonivek

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #420 on: December 17, 2014, 03:46:00 pm »

what's this? SHODAN doesnt even get an honorable mention?

How do you think I feel Cheryl from Silent Hill 3 didn't get in either.

Nor did Terra from FF6, Arina from Chrono Trigger (crud did I forget my favorite character's name?), or Chun-Li (sort of... sometimes)
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 03:48:28 pm by Neonivek »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #421 on: December 17, 2014, 03:48:09 pm »

Claire was the first char I played in any of the RE series, the mention is sentimentally motivated :P

Neonivek

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #422 on: December 17, 2014, 03:49:03 pm »

Claire was the first char I played in any of the RE series, the mention is sentimentally motivated :P

Please we all know who makes the best Jill Sandwich.

Wow, I just realized how many resident evil females are in the running for just flat out best character in their series.

Claire, Jill, and Ada are all awesome... while Leon is actually alright and Chris is generic as heck.

HECK the only Resident Evil characters who compete is Albert Wesker and Nemesis...

Also I can't be the only one who desperately wants Claire to return... Well... the games did reboot.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 03:54:22 pm by Neonivek »
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Phmcw

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #423 on: December 17, 2014, 04:14:40 pm »

I never got this debate anyway. I can go back as far as I want in gaming, there has always been women charcter ecerywhere and usually they were kicking ass.

Let's take Lara Croft from Tomb raider 1 : A "beautifull" (as beautifull as you can make a dozen polygon, so they gave her huge boobs) archeologist that live in a mansion and play at least 3 instrument (or have a cello, and harp and a piano laying around). Tania, a resistant comando that is pretty much a pallet swap of the original commando of C&C, speaking about C&C the commander of the gdi airforce was a woman,...

Videogames were always ahead of their time, and most of the stupid shit never got any kind of real success.
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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #424 on: December 17, 2014, 04:18:45 pm »

The problem with this debate is that success is very hard to judge and failure is too easy.
Thus any attempt to solve it will be picked at by someone, and so everything feels like one step forward and two steps back. Or two steps forward off a cliff, if the game's particularly bad.

Neonivek

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #425 on: December 17, 2014, 04:24:54 pm »

The problem with this debate is that success is very hard to judge and failure is too easy.
Thus any attempt to solve it will be picked at by someone, and so everything feels like one step forward and two steps back. Or two steps forward off a cliff, if the game's particularly bad.

Well that and it is pathetically easy to twist anything into sounding sexist.

Heck that is what I did multiple times in this thread.

In fact a lot of the arguments that videogames are incredibly sexist are incredibly easy to fail due to the nature of games (Objectification being the prime example). While others are ones that simply exist because the story is tragic... And other still when a female character has anything beyond a modestly attractive appearance or anything beyond being asexual.

Not that there aren't arguments...

Though yes, videogames certainly are more progressive then movies and television when it comes to the portrayal of women... by leagues.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 04:26:29 pm by Neonivek »
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Caz

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #426 on: December 17, 2014, 04:26:57 pm »

Prisoner 849 (Unreal)

Colonel Corazon Santiago (Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri) - best ideaology and an interesting character imo. she's pretty much the one that orchestrated the separation of factions before they hit Planet.

Sarah Kerrigan, Queen of Blades (Starcraft) - zerg, psionic mastery is pretty cool

Greta (Geneforge series) - though I almost put Shakti. Her death was the worst moment of Geneforge 2, though I understand why it had to happen :( edit: I want to put that moderate-rebel Shaper that was one of the factions for Geneforge 5, but can't remember her name. Miranda? Whatever her name was, hers was pretty much the only faction in that game that wasn't morally abhorrent.

Sorcha (Sacrifice) - one of the most moral wizards in the series. shame she died in every ending.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 04:28:55 pm by Caz »
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Zangi

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #427 on: December 17, 2014, 04:30:00 pm »

Nor did Terra from FF6, Arina from Chrono Trigger (crud did I forget my favorite character's name?), or Chun-Li (sort of... sometimes)
Arina?  There are 3 females of note.  Marle, the Runaway Princess,  Lucca, the Inventor/Engineer and Ayla, the Tribal Chief(She does kick ass)...  Well, I guess Schala too, the obedient child.

Also, whorey crud, this thread exploded when you compare it to the Russian one...
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Rolan7

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #428 on: December 17, 2014, 04:31:30 pm »

I should state there are a few games that did feature both male and female versions of soldiers where the female soldiers were the inferior product (usually for good reason)

Kessen had female troops and for the most part they weren't very impressive. Though in that case the unit was both historical and even within the context of the game the unit was odd...
Female soldiers being unusual doesn't suggest they should be unimpressive, in fact the opposite.  A typical levy was one man per family.  The one in a thousand (or million) women who could join should statistically be more physically and mentally talented than the levy soldiers.

And in Mount and Blade women troops are capped at terrible no matter how much you train them (bonus that they are the hardest troop in the game to obtain in real quantities) with only story important females are able to be competent.
I was going to be sad about this, but fortunately it doesn't seem to be true?  Sword Sisters have very comparable stats to Mercenary Cavalry, their male equivalents.  They have less health, but more weapon skill and better armor (they even have gloves!).  Their wage is also much lower, which seems like some subtle social commentary  :o

One Golf game for the PS2 that I cannot remember... had female golfers in the game (the ones you made had no penalty mind you) and even the best female golfer of the game pretty much sat as the Queen of the Losers in spite being the greatest female golfer in real life. Yet this was because her golf ability was actually accurately represented in the game. She was actually quite skilled but her undoing was her lack of swing strength, so on par 3 she is competitive... but Par 5 just having a lumberjack is usually enough to make her lag behind.
This is true of a lot of sports, yeah...  It can partially be explained by fewer women being encouraged to enter, and getting less attention/money.  But physical gender differences are probably a big part of it too, I guess.

Other then a few select people who would throw a stink... I don't think players as a whole would object to realistic portrayals of female ability so long as it feels like it isn't doing so out of malice.

For example a military game that gives accurate carrying weights for both male and female troops shouldn't be called out.
Only if it were balanced by giving the female ones more health, to represent pain tolerance.  Don't women tend to have more endurance for carrying burdens, anyway?  If the soldiers aren't world-class special forces, it's easier and realistic for them to just have the same stats.

Just from a gameplay perspective, *only* penalizing someone for playing a female isn't good design.

But I should say that for the most part... games usually don't have any reason to really play it up. Which is why it isn't generally done. For both the "fantasy", "Heroic", and "Power Fantasy" aspect. Heck all three of the ones I mentioned are because they have some aspect of realism OR represent a highly sexist system in play that isn't overcome just because you want it to.

As well if they do give differences based on gender... they have to do it in good faith.
The way I see it, of all the things video games don't bother to simulate, gender effects are an easy one to ignore.  Historic games get a pass for women being rare or absent, though.
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Rolan7

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #429 on: December 17, 2014, 04:35:42 pm »

what's this? SHODAN doesnt even get an honorable mention?

How do you think I feel Cheryl from Silent Hill 3 didn't get in either.

Nor did Terra from FF6, Arina from Chrono Trigger (crud did I forget my favorite character's name?), or Chun-Li (sort of... sometimes)
Ayla instead of Lucca?  I can respect that, actually, since she had the responsibilities of leading a tribe.  Kinda established the human empire.

Prisoner 849 (Unreal)
The PC didn't have any character in Unreal :P  Also I think the expansion pack canonized that the PC is male (unless there were multiple voiceovers).
What about the other lady prisoner who the Nali hailed as the chosen one?  I thought that was a cool twist, defying the player's expectations a bit.  Shame how it turned out though.
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Levi

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #430 on: December 17, 2014, 04:40:21 pm »

Top 5 female characters in videogames. Go.

Geh, I could only think of two.  I'm sure there are more.

Ellie from Borderlands 2 (Well, pretty much all of the female characters from borderlands 2 were great)
Trishka from Bulletstorm.  "I will kill your dicks!"

Trishka is probably debatable, but I thought she fit in perfectly into that kind of shooter. 
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penguinofhonor

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #431 on: December 17, 2014, 04:42:22 pm »

On the "trying to include women in your game gets you yelled at by feminists" topic, I have not found the feminist uproar that supposedly happened after CoD added female characters. Mostly just "Why wasn't this added sooner?"
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Caz

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #432 on: December 17, 2014, 05:10:36 pm »

The PC didn't have any character in Unreal :P  Also I think the expansion pack canonized that the PC is male (unless there were multiple voiceovers).
What about the other lady prisoner who the Nali hailed as the chosen one?  I thought that was a cool twist, defying the player's expectations a bit.  Shame how it turned out though.

Nah, the original character was female. The Unreal expansion had both male and female voiceovers.

Any character that can escape from a prison ship and travel across an insane alien planet where everything is trying to kill you and then kill the big bad and escape is pretty badass in my books.

I liked the several levels where you were following the logs of this party from another spaceship who were looking for their crew member who was kidnapped by the skaarj. You go through catacombs and fortresses and sewers to eventually end up at a bell tower where you find her corpse. After that moment you're just thinking 'fuck this, let's get the hell out of here.'
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #433 on: December 17, 2014, 05:17:08 pm »

Colonel Corazon Santiago (Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri) - best ideaology and an interesting character imo. she's pretty much the one that orchestrated the separation of factions before they hit Planet.
Sure... It wasn't Sheng-Ji Yang at all...

Sarah Kerrigan, Queen of Blades (Starcraft) - zerg, psionic mastery is pretty cool
Starcraft HoTs was so much wasted potential. Every plot decision Kerrigan makes undoes everything that was accomplished by Jimmy in WoL and the Tosh arc was rendered pointless. They're running the risk of going full 40k and never allowing the story to progress. The game seemed rushed.
One thing I do like from that game: The Zerg Queen Kerrigan left on that Protoss Mothership with the order to kill all Protoss. Kerrigan stops bothering to communicate with the Queen once the Queen has killed all the Protoss on the Mothership, so the Queen decides to continue following that order to mean kill ALL the Protoss.
If she is a minor villain in LotV I'll be disappointed. That Queen is the living 'OH SNAP' moment personified with an Ozymandias alien overlord in the making.

Female soldiers being unusual doesn't suggest they should be unimpressive, in fact the opposite.  A typical levy was one man per family.  The one in a thousand (or million) women who could join should statistically be more physically and mentally talented than the levy soldiers.
Mentally sure if they're an officer, but statistics do not favour physical. This was brought up in the whole warrior vs soldier derail, but being achilles does not beat being disciplined and being shrewd. Athena was never stronger nor more martial than Ares yet she remained victorious over him for a reason.

Only if it were balanced by giving the female ones more health, to represent pain tolerance.  Don't women tend to have more endurance for carrying burdens, anyway?  If the soldiers aren't world-class special forces, it's easier and realistic for them to just have the same stats.
'Sex related differences in the experience of both clinical and experimentally induced pain have been widely reported. Specifically, females are at greater risk for developing several chronic pain disorders, and women exhibit greater sensitivity to noxious stimuli in the laboratory compared with men. Several mechanisms have been proposed to account for these sex differences. Psychosocial factors such as sex role beliefs, pain coping strategies, mood, and pain-related expectancies may underlie these effects. In addition, there is evidence that familial factors can alter pain responses, and these intergenerational influences may differ as a function of sex. Sex hormones are also known to affect pain responses, which may mediate the sex differences.'
Higher estrogen levels in women = painkillers have a larger effect = paint tolerance is cyclical. Whether the cause be bravado or chemistry however, men ostensibly perform better in pain tests.
From the studies I've seen endurance is most affected by how much endurance training the individual's done and what their diet is.

...

A marathon game is a great idea.

Just from a gameplay perspective, *only* penalizing someone for playing a female isn't good design.
Well that's obvious enough, you can model in variations in body strength and colour vision and who is more prone to what diseases but very few games would actually find a use for that. Also compare to where a game's internal logic clashes with the need to make the game actually fun, such as in starcraft where a starship the size of a skyscraper can be taken down by a creature the size of a horse firing darts.
Just fuck the statistics and make your characters as strong as needs be. It's a video game, it doesn't give a fuck about the laws of reality.

The way I see it, of all the things video games don't bother to simulate, gender effects are an easy one to ignore.  Historic games get a pass for women being rare or absent, though.
More or less concurred. It does have a particular use I guess for customchar stats for those kinds of RPGs, but on the top of my head I don't see much else use for it.

Neonivek

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Re: Females in Games? Thread
« Reply #434 on: December 17, 2014, 05:46:13 pm »

On the "trying to include women in your game gets you yelled at by feminists" topic, I have not found the feminist uproar that supposedly happened after CoD added female characters. Mostly just "Why wasn't this added sooner?"

It doesn't happen all the time.

That and what are people going to latch onto?

Though it should be stated that... Who said anything about Feminists?
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 05:48:04 pm by Neonivek »
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