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[smeeprocket]

It hardly matters smeeprocket your whole argument just boils down to hurt feelings which frankly... is weak.

yea my argument has just been a big cryfest.

This is why I am generally hostile about these things. Because of posts like this. Because an attempt to draw attention to the matter results in this.

Someone explain to me why I should be measured and calm against this kind of behavior?

[Kingbodz]

It hardly matters smeeprocket your whole argument just boils down to hurt feelings which frankly... is weak.

This is what I'm getting now. You had nice arguments before now I'm getting tumblr rehashings.

[LordBucket]

They are becoming LoudBucket and Lord Whispers!

yea honestly, rape statistics and arguing whether women get raped is unpleasant for me, and I'd really rather discuss women in video games. It's not that I won't discuss the other, but it is far more damaging to me psychologically than discussing video games.

...out of curiosity, and with apologies...how do you feel about games where being raped is the point? For example, Violated Heroine, or skyrim mods like Sexlabs Defeated? It's one thing to point out unpleasant treatment and/or sexualization of women in games, but...you do realize that there are games where being sexualized and raped is very specifically, exactly the point of gameplay? And that people do play these games, because that's what they want to play?

This kind of goes back to what I was saying originally about catering to everybody. If you want to play games where you get to play an unattractive, unsexualized woman, I completely approve of your getting to do so. And I would acknowledge that you don't need my approval. But that works both ways. If somebody wants to play a game full of scantily clad bimbettes, or if somebody wants to be the scantily clad bimbette...well, it's kind of not either of our places to tell them they can't do that.

If you want something and you don't have it, I believe it would be better for everyone for you to be able to have it. But making somebody else not have something just because you don't like it...that's not a line I'm very comfortable crossing.

[Neonivek]

Then give a reason beyond hurt feelings.

I asked for some practical reasons.

If it isn't hurting anyone... then what is the problem?

It hardly matters smeeprocket your whole argument just boils down to hurt feelings which frankly... is weak.

yea my argument has just been a big cryfest.

This is why I am generally hostile about these things. Because of posts like this. Because an attempt to draw attention to the matter results in this.

Someone explain to me why I should be measured and calm against this kind of behavior?

Except...

I'm not actually drawing a correlation between real life and the games.

Why should I take your argument as anything but hurt feelings?

There is a nuance to harm that tends to expand out in everything we do.

[Shinotsa]

This thread is moving so fast it's on fire.

Yeah. Having a tough time keeping up. And some of the links people are giving are like 10 minutes of reading. And I'm not even sure why we're talking about rape and unattractive guys in movies in getting girls all of the sudden. I might have to bow out.

The point being pervasive Male Gaze in all forms of entertainment, and how it affects how women are treated in videogames because the "gaze" of the player is that of a male. And how the woman is an object for the male to attain in society, and thinks he deserves as an award for being male.

-snipped for font-

It normalizes it, and that makes it worse.

wot

[Kingbodz]

This thread is moving so fast it's on fire.

Yeah. Having a tough time keeping up. And some of the links people are giving are like 10 minutes of reading. And I'm not even sure why we're talking about rape and unattractive guys in movies in getting girls all of the sudden. I might have to bow out.

The point being pervasive Male Gaze in all forms of entertainment, and how it affects how women are treated in videogames because the "gaze" of the player is that of a male. And how the woman is an object for the male to attain in society, and thinks he deserves as an award for being male.

-snipped for font-

It normalizes it, and that makes it worse.

wot

I think... I think pufferfish went full crazed feminist.

[Empiricist]

It hardly matters smeeprocket your whole argument just boils down to hurt feelings which frankly... is weak.

I wouldn't call that a rather a weak case. At the end of the day, everything boils down to feelings. You asked for correlation between videogame representation and violence, yet at the end of the day, violence and whatnot does little but hurt feelings. Take all the atrocities, all the sins ever committed, at the end of the day, once you grind them down far enough it is still a matter of hurt feelings.

Suppose our entire species goes extinct, does it really matter aside from bruising our own egos, hurting our feelings? Humans are driven by feelings.

[smeeprocket]

They are becoming LoudBucket and Lord Whispers!

yea honestly, rape statistics and arguing whether women get raped is unpleasant for me, and I'd really rather discuss women in video games. It's not that I won't discuss the other, but it is far more damaging to me psychologically than discussing video games.

...out of curiosity, and with apologies...how do you feel about games where being raped is the point? For example, Violated Heroine, or skyrim mods like Sexlabs Defeated? It's one thing to point out unpleasant treatment and/or sexualization of women in games, but...you do realize that there are games where being sexualized and raped is very specifically, exactly the point of gameplay? And that people do play these games, because that's what they want to play?

This kind of goes back to what I was saying originally about catering to everybody. If you want to play games where you get to play an unattractive, unsexualized woman, I completely approve of your getting to do so. And I would acknowledge that you don't need my approval. But that works both ways. If somebody wants to play a game full of scantily clad bimbettes, or if somebody wants to be the scantily clad bimbette...well, it's kind of not either of our places to tell them they can't do that.

If you want something and you don't have it, I believe it would be better for everyone for you to be able to have it. But making somebody else not have something just because you don't like it...that's not a line I'm very comfortable crossing.

I don't approve of those games. Rape is not something we should be making fantasy games about. It's serious and triggering. I am ignoring that stuff though because it is either mods, or fringe, and I can't force people not to make them.

Neonivek

you are just attempting to trivialize my argument now and troll, so don't expect a response. Half this thread has been about the problem and what needs to be done and you are diminishing it to hurt feelings. A last gasp from someone without an argument.

[penguinofhonor]

This kind of goes back to what I was saying originally about catering to everybody. If you want to play games where you get to play an unattractive, unsexualized woman, I completely approve of your getting to do so. And I would acknowledge that you don't need my approval. But that works both ways. If somebody wants to play a game full of scantily clad bimbettes, or if somebody wants to be the scantily clad bimbette...well, it's kind of not either of our places to tell them they can't do that.

If you want something and you don't have it, I believe it would be better for everyone for you to be able to have it. But making somebody else not have something just because you don't like it...that's not a line I'm very comfortable crossing.

It's not just preferences. Sexist and sexualized depictions of women measurably decrease women's self-image and measurably lower men and women's opinions of womens' mental/physical capabilities.

[Neonivek]

I think... I think pufferfish went full crazed feminist.

Well no Kingbodz

Just look at Romantic Comedies AND Romance Novels

Romantic Comedies are about basically a male object of attention who is arbitrarily perfect who either whisks the woman off her feet or she wins. If the star is a man then it is about the perfect woman.

As well a lot of them are about some guy who has everything... but all he needed was you... the female viewer.

[Loud Whispers]

They are becoming LoudBucket and Lord Whispers!

I tried thinking of something funny to say BUT BY GOD INFINITE NINJAS NOTHING IS WORTH IT AAAAHH

[smeeprocket]

I think... I think pufferfish went full crazed feminist.

Well no Kingbodz

Just look at Romantic Comedies AND Romance Novels

Romantic Comedies are about basically a male object of attention who is arbitrarily perfect who either whisks the woman off her feet or she wins. If the star is a man then it is about the perfect woman.

As well a lot of them are about some guy who has everything... but all he needed was you... the female viewer.

no, romantic comedies and such are generally ridiculously sexist towards women. Some of the worst.

Romance novels are pretty bad too. But screenplays more because they are often written by men.

edit: I remember reading a romance novel where the male in it "gently" rapes a woman because she did not want to consummate a marriage, and then become violent when he realizes she is not a virgin. That's not something I think is representative of anything that benefits women.

[Gentlefish]

I think... I think pufferfish went full crazed feminist.

And here's feminist being used as a negative term. I had a feeling getting into this debate would be... interesting. Also goes to show how deeply rooted in society sexist thoughts are.

It hardly matters smeeprocket your whole argument just boils down to hurt feelings which frankly... is weak.

I wouldn't call that a rather a weak case. At the end of the day, everything boils down to feelings. You asked for correlation between videogame representation and violence, yet at the end of the day, violence and whatnot does little but hurt feelings. Take all the atrocities, all the sins ever committed, at the end of the day, once you grind them down far enough it is still a matter of hurt feelings.

Suppose our entire species goes extinct, does it really matter aside from bruising our own egos, hurting our feelings? Humans are driven by feelings.

I'm sorry but it also goes beyond feelings. Feelings are a terrible thing to hurt, but PTSD victims who suffer flashbacks of their rape when they visit a certain location

or play a video-game with excessive unnecessary female abuse

are not hurt feelings. They're causing a human being such intense mental anguish it can and totally will have physical effects. Often for the rest of their life.

[Glowcat]

This thread will end up like the others for the same reason: People utterly convinced of their own objectivity (lol) are throwing down "sources" without doing an analysis of the data and actual concerns to address the arguments they think they're refuting. I swear, those who complain the loudest about post-modernism are the ones who need it the most because they run into wall after wall rather than apply some skepticism to themselves first, because they apparently think using the trappings of science and academia will do all their work for them. It then turns into a circlejerk between people providing gotcha questions on the level of "If monkeys evolved, why are they still around?!" with a helping of inherent hostility of which is repeatedly reinforced as the only incivility to be tolerated.

And there's only so much rape apologia that one can take before it's time to say "fuck it, I'm out" and avoid reaching the point where all you wanna do is set the world on fire.

[Shinotsa]

I think... I think pufferfish went full crazed feminist.

Well no Kingbodz

Just look at Romantic Comedies AND Romance Novels

Romantic Comedies are about basically a male object of attention who is arbitrarily perfect who either whisks the woman off her feet or she wins. If the star is a man then it is about the perfect woman.

As well a lot of them are about some guy who has everything... but all he needed was you... the female viewer.

Women enjoy romantic partners as well. There's a great deal of sexual inequality in the world. The fact that love is something men want is not an example.